Musket.. People don't need to be steeped in philosophy to hold a general view and either embrace or dismiss a concept based on that view.

Of course... and I'm sorry if that's what my remark sounded like. All I mean is that MY having been steeped in it shows me the kinds of careless, shallow thinking involved in many of those views...in both directions. There are some who believe or disbelieve having carefully studied the options and such 'evidence' as there is for either side... I can talk to some of them, but not easily to the ones who categorically state that they are 'right' on either side.

Blandiver said: "As for Philosophy, a friend of mine once said it was going looking for trouble where there isn't any. Like Religion, I steer well clear.
Ha! Your friend was better equipped to toss out little aphorisms and cute remarks than to evaluate complex systems of logic, history and conceptual relationships... but that is the usual response to something one has only a passing acquaintence with.
(*I* "steer clear" of organized religion myself, having been raised in it, thought about it, tried several versions, studied it as a subject, watched its overall worldly activity, and finally moved to being a confirmed skeptic about its claims.)