I really don't intend to take this any further with you - you have denied outright that the Church has had any influence in the making of any laws and have put it down as "being afraid to say no to the priest"
You have denied that it has any influence in the maintenance of ancient termination laws and blamed the medical staff for "errors" despite the fact that a simple operation could save lives.
You have refused to comment on the role of the church in the abuse, Magdalene and Industrial School horrors - apparently passing them off as blameless occurrences.
Nowhere have you accepted a link between injustices and atrocities with church influence, on the contrary, you have denied that such an influence exists.
You have suggested that the victims of those injustices should piss off and live somewhere else if they are not prepared to put up with them.
Throughout, you have refused to comment on the Churches' control of childrens' education and spiritual guidance almost from birth, and its demand that that control remains.
There is no need for me or anybody to "prove" anything - it just takes a scroll up this thread to substantiate anything I have written - you've said it all over and over again.
As I said, find another hobby that you're good at - you've made an utter hames at the last few you've put your hand to on this forum, especially over the last few months.
Now - back to the real world.
I remember hearing a discussion on the radio at the time of the fall of the Shah, when a contributor said that the world could now look forward to an increasing number of 'Holy Wars' now that his "stabilising influence" had been removed.
Someone else commented that this had always been the case and that religion had been the main cause of wars, atrocities and injustices throughout history, Christianity being one of the leading contenders.
The greatest threat to world peace today is a religious one and while Islam extremism is receiving the most attention at present it isn't by any means on its own - it only needs a peep at what is happening in the Middle East, with one of the contenders now possessing full Nuclear capability and another coming up fast on the inside track.
Backing one dog against another in this lethal race, as always happens in these discussions, is to miss the essential point - religion and politics is a toxic mix and supporting one side against the other only allows the boys to go on playing with their toys.
Don't know about you lot, but I'm far too old to go digging fall-out shelters in the back garden.
DAMN THEM ALL - NO CHURCH SHOULD EVER HAVE A SAY IN NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS WHIC AFFECT US ALL - IT IS NOT THEIR JOB. any more than it is the job of any individual member of this forum to tell us what we should and should not be discussing BTW
Jim Carroll