I'll go along with Al, as well.

Though it does irk me when those who should know better settle for less... but then they also don't seem to want to change/improve.

There is no pleasing everyone on this... not going to happen, but I'd rather be inclusive than exclusive... cause that's how things die out, otherwise.

I try to support "singing for non-singers" type workshops... help rather than ostracize ... not always easy

which reminds me... how'd it go with your pupil, Bobert?