What Will says is right - and it's important - which goes back to something Brian said a few days ago which, like I said in response, is something I take as a given : Nice to see the spirit of co-operation between such regular antagonists. I much prefer my vituperative arguments to be grounded in some kind of mutual respect, or even friendship.

I don't know what Richard's problem is. I confess to firing off the term tosser in a post to someone I know & respect very deeply, but the issue (long since blown o'er!) was very personal, though I still regretted it. This topic isn't personal in the slightest - it's a discussion on the nature of Traditional Folk Music and how we feel it relates to wider English / British culture as a whole. We all have ideas and opinions on that, which we come here to throw into the pot because we just happen to care about this stuff enough to be involved with it, on whatever level. This is rare & uncommon earth we're treading here - best we do so with care & respect.

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Otherwise : I suggest you tell that to Steeleye Span or Fairport Convention or many many others - and then retracy your suggestion that performances by June Tabor and the Oyster Band can not be folk, not performances of traditional song.

There is a world of difference between (say) Bob Roberts' timeless rendering of When Gamekeepers Lie Sleeping on 'Songs of the Sailing Barges' and June Tabor's 70s Macrame Beat rendition on 'Airs and Graces'. The tradition of the latter has little to do with that of the former; the latter is defined by a particular Zeitgeist which even now might be considered charmingly retro in an almost Clappisonesque folksy sense, whereas the former is almost numinous in its perfect purity that defines an entire idiom. One sounds terribly dated, the other is on a par with The Eternal. In other words, The Revival and The Tradition are two very different things and - as I've said here before - we conflate them at our peril.

I must stress that I love the late, great John Clappison as much as I love June Tabor, which is to say very muchly, though times I might wonder about their choice of material, but ultimately defer to their respective genius & cunning in so doing. That is the difference between Folk and Traditional, and why The Tradition is, and must be, set in aspic with a severe preservation order slapped on it least it ripped out and modernised, which, for many, it already has been. I'm thinking of those hapless singers who still source their singaround efforts to their favourite revival groups & singers rather than traditional ones - and don't know, much less care, what the difference is.