Musket (24 Nov 13 - 02:29 PM), my remarks were not about semantics. We agree that clergy and other persons of authority are tempted to abuse their power; I wrote that a number of times. This however does not allow the conclusion that the ethical problem is inexistent and a mere invention of the clergy, as you seem to suggest. Commercials on TV are usually biased, but this does not imply that everything they advertise is crap.

I also wrote that I disapprove of the text of specific Catholic doctrine mentioned by Joe - and I would do so even if abuse were impossible.

Steve, my point is what I stated, in response to Eliza's (and apparently Musket's) idea that there is no real ethical problem about sex, all made up by the clergy. Ethics, like sex, also has a strong positive side, but that was not Eliza's question.