Disgusting obscene bigotry isn't complicated at all. If it were, you wouldn't be capable of it worm.

The complications are purely down to whether or not society is accessible for all, regardless of ethnicity, gender, disability or sexual orientation. If any person or organisation feels otherwise, they have a view, fine. But if they by action or inaction carry out that view, they are in breach of the law (in The UK.) Unless they are acting on behalf of a recognised religion. Wow. Doesn't exactly make discrimination a bad thing after all eh? I have a friend who lives in a city with his wife and two young girls. He would love to move to a village, but he is white and his wife is black. They are discriminated less in the city. People don't stare at them. But if religions can openly discriminate, it isn't a bad thing if others do?

My stance is simple. If I can't discriminate, why can they? If Akenhateon came into a pub I owned, I couldn't bar him on the basis of his odious beliefs but a church can put out a job advert for a bishop, (which is a job and comes under employment law) and say no women can apply. They can say "come and get married here!" But gays can piss off. (In order to pander to them and ensure respectable citizens don't take them to court, the gay marriage act makes it illegal for Church of England or Wales to conduct gay marriage.)

Mind you, I still wouldn't serve him.

So tell me again, what legitimate voice have religious clubs and societies when they have fought hard and long against equality of opportunity for all? Why should I or anybody else have any respect for them.? Importantly, when Joe talks of the role of church to get involved in moral affairs, it would be nice for them to get their own house in order before preaching morals to those for whom civilisation has progressed beyond bigotry and misogyny. Oh, and in The UK, the number of practicing Anglican Christians means it would make more sense for members of The Council of Mosques to sit in the upper house than Anglican bishops.

The wonderful Stephen Fry in his two part documentary "Stepping Out" was debating with a Ugandan priest who advocated capital punishment for being gay. He said that there are over four hundred creatures who exhibit homosexual behaviour but only one that persecutes them. He then spoke to a young lesbian who, on the orders of her local Catholic priest (who was named and admitted it) was "correctively raped." She fell pregnant from the ordeal and just for good measure is now HIV+. The priest spoke of God's punishment of her. I had to go for "a short walk" after viewing her brave interview.

Sorry Joe, still not getting this moral stance. I must be thick.