"So, I am stupid because I read and learn from history (not "journalists")!" But you don't read from anything Keith - you seek out, cut and paste (not even bothering to read them properly) - you wouldn't be putting up names that bear no resemblance to your jingoism if you did You now appear to be lifting direct quotes from the web and claiming them as your own - or did you just forget to put in the quotation marks from your posting - entirely filched from 'The First Casualty; truth' Jim Carroll