Mr. Shaw you are every bit as illogical and flawed in your arguments as pete. Pete wasn't talking about witness, certainly that was not the thrust of his argument. Yet you blame him anyway.

And what is this silly illogical tirade against witnesses? Witnesses aren't lazy. Witnesses are observers. Witness are observers who recount what they have observed.

Science doesn't gather a damned thing science is a process not a person. Scientists gather evidence and submit it for approval. Scientists are people and people make mistakes and believe things. They believe things such as scientific principles and Newtons laws.

Missdefining and ranting about a couple of words is not a rational or reasoned argument.

It is lazy thinking and sloppy arguments such as yours that give people like pete hope that the can overcome science with their own sloppy arguments.

BTW are you aware of the changes to the the rules on this forum?

Click on "membership" on the first page and you will find this....

"You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak."