"More quibbling about the "coffin ships" does not alter by one corpse the number of people who died on them - it just shuffles around them - as you apologists do."

Don't believe I personally have shuffled anything around – you are trying to infer or claim that 625,000 people died on the ships transporting emigrants from the British isles to either Canada or America during the famine of 1845 to 1851 – Now if one was to accept that between 1845 and 1855 two million Irish men, women and children emigrated to the new world that would mean that just over 31% died. Only trouble is Christmas that just doesn't tally with the numbers who landed and went on to live in the new world. Joel Mokyr an ecomonics historian however has studied the numbers and his percentage indicates only 5% lost their lives. Now do I believe him, or do I believe you? Professor Mokyr has an international reputation in his field of study and is widely acclaimed, you on the other hand I know for a fact have a long history of just making stuff up, and deliberately misrepresenting things to suit your general anti-British bias. So if you don't mind I will go with the good Professor.

"Cecil Woodham Smith's The Great Hunger certainly is not "definitive" - it is merely an excellent introduction to the subject."

Much acclaimed when it was written back in 1962, it was critically reviewed by historians as being overly harsh on Trevelyan. When I read it I thought it was a good book and your view is shared by:

Great Famine Interpreters - Old & New

The writer also comes down on the side that there was no great deliberate plot and that Mitchel's book was propaganda.

What evidence do you wish to concoct to substantiate your claim that Trevelyan was a religious fanatic? I mean this is the same supposed religious fanatic who in one letter dated 29 April 1846, wrote:

"Our measures must proceed with as little disturbance as possible of the ordinary course of private trade, which must ever be the chief resource for the subsistence of the people, but, coûte que coûte (at any cost), the people must not, under any circumstances, be allowed to starve."

Strange words to use for a man hell bent in destroying the Irish nation by starving them to death don't you think?

"I stumbled across the debate between Kennedy and Coogan on 'The Famine Plot' - fascinating listening."

Yes it was Christmas and Kennedy ran circles round Coogan, even although Coogan was given more time.

"Kennedy, whatever his qualifications, turns out to be" - A Historian Not a Hack ("Your words Christmas").

Reading up about Trevelyan I came across this bit of nonsense written by one Ciarán Ó Murchadha, from his book "The Great potato famine: Ireland's Agony 1845-1852":

"The Peelite Relief Programs that were in operation during the beginning years of the famine were shut down on July 21, 1846 by Charles Wood, 1st Viscount Halifax, on Trevelyan's orders"

Now just looking at who was who in that statement you had Charles Wood, 1st Viscount Halifax, who was the Chancellor of the Exchequer, second most important political appointment in the Whig Government of Lord John Russell, and you had Charles Edward Trevelyan the British civil servant chiefly responsible for administering Irish relief policy throughout the famine years (He didn't pick up his KCB until 1848). Now then you tell me who was in a position to give who orders? (Hint: It certainly wasn't Trevelyan). By the way what holiday did Trevelyan take between 1845 and 1852?

"One thing I had missed when I read Coogan's book, which I revisited last night, was an appendix containing a long letter sent anonymously by Trevelyan (under the pseudonym Philalethes) to The Morning Chronicle (Oct. 11th 1843), expressing his hatred of the Irish as lazy malcontents who didn't appreciate the benefits of the British Empire"
I have never come across Trevelyan's letter before and can find no reference to it elsewhere - a historical cover-up?

So only Tim Pat Coogan has got substantive proof that Phlalethes and Charles Edward Trevelyan are indeed the same person, as no reference is made to this letter elsewhere, so it MUST BE a cover up? What about if Trevelyan didn't write the letter at all? Oh by the way as to the Irish being lazy I would refer you to the link you supplied "Famine deaths" and acquaint yourself with what Professor Joel Mokyr says about the Irish on that point – their indolence, personal hygiene and living habits were all massive contributory factors with regard to death from contagious diseases.
   
"Comparing other famines with the Irish one is more or less equivalent to saying human rights atrocities are acceptable because everybody does them"

The only points of comparison that I have made have centred on:

1: Ireland was not the only place struck by this particular famine, but is the only place in which people, such as yourself are wittering on about deliberate plots and genocide purely to advance a political objective.

2: That while famines raged throughout Europe the British Government was the only Government that put in place a relief effort (Over three-quarters of a million men engaged in Government sponsored work programmes and just over three million people being fed).

"You have described The Famine as "unprecedented" - it was.
The way it was handled was Genocidal - whether it was deliberately so is what should be debated."

No case to answer, the charge just simply cannot be substantiated. All factual evidence points to the opposite of deliberate genocide.

"Your advocating for Hastings doesn't make a happorth of difference - not to me anyway."

The Hastings/Coogan thing just demonstrates your hypocrisy, bigotry and bias.

"You want to make a point about the Famine - do so."

I have done so, shooting down one argument of yours after another

"Don't compare it to other famines"

Ah only the Irish Famine counts eh? How parochial of you

"don't waffle about who invented coffin ships"

Nobody invented "Coffin" Ships Christmas it was a term already in use before the famine ever occurred, what was under discussion was the fact that the term did not originate with the Famine. Don't dare to presume to tell me what I can and cannot mention in conversation with others on this forum.

"come out from behind the reputations of 'prominent historians and address the facts"

Well you see Christmas on this topic all those prominent historians have studied the period and they have addressed the facts in far, far greater detail than either you or I have, and recognizing that reality I tend to be influenced by what they, not you have written and said on the subject.

So ALL attempts at relief were abandoned were they? That is at odds with what was actually done, the Government did not shut down all relief efforts and independent relief efforts such as those mounted by the Society of Friends and other continued their work.

"that is what lies at the heart of over a million deaths and a permanent culture of Irish emigration ever since."

"Aw Jayzus, here we are in two thousand and fourteen lads, and we've all got the f**k off out of it because of what those bastard Brits did damn near 170 years ago" – Just how pathetic can you get Christmas.