I hope people pay attention to what Amos says in the previous message. There's a lot there that's worth consideration. For many of us, we tend to value our environs more if we see a spiritual Center. And even if that Center does not exist on objective terms, isn't there value if it helps us appreciate and respect our environment and our fellow humans? [And if we don't see that spiritual Center, there's nothing wrong with that, either.]

The Snail says (26 Mar 14 - 07:33 AM):

I don't know if you have noticed, Joe, but I have been arguing against Steve's somewhat evangelistic take on evolution for quite some time. I don't think anything he says proves your point if your point is supposed to be about science or scientists, It merely proves a point about Steve.

Exactly. I was asked to provide evidence of those who take a doctrinaire view of science. Mr. Shaw seems to be a good example. And Mr. Blandiver and Mr. Musket approach it. Science and scientists generally take a far more honest and far less doctrinaire approach, and I almost always accept the findings of science. Real Science and real scientists have no business proving or disproving the existence of God. That's a spiritual matter, not a matter of science.

The fundamentalists try to provide scientific and historical and logical proofs of the existence of God. We who practice "religion lite" (Musket's term) have no reason to do that. We simply believe, and aren't particularly concerned if others don't believe.

It's really difficult for me to discuss religious belief and practices with the likes of Shaw, Blandiver, and Musket, because they are only able to understand faith in fundamentalist terms. I don't speak that language, because it is incapable of expressing my way of thinking.

Wizzy says (26 Mar 14 - 11:50 AM):

We Anglicans enjoy the both/and sort of thinking. These two apparent polar-polar opposites (intelligent design/evolution) live together quite well in a thinking brain. They both have their distinct merits.

I think that's true for most of us progressive Christians - and for thinking atheists, for that matter. We don't see things as absolutes, and therefore we cannot speak the language of the fundamentalists.

-Joe-