The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #150911   Message #3614748
Posted By: Teribus
03-Apr-14 - 03:39 AM
Thread Name: BS: Irish Potato Blight- Cause found
Subject: RE: BS: Irish Potato Blight- Cause found
Nielsen Christmas? Could that be this Robert Nielsen, the historian? The same Robert Nielsen who stated the following:

1: " Some people claim that the Great Famine was an act of genocide committed by the British Empire against the Irish people. This theory is most popular among Irish-Americans (who strangely enough are more nationalist than people from Ireland) and on the internet, though it has little if any credence in Ireland."

2: " The most controversial issue in Anglo-Irish affairs is the allegation that food was exported during the Famine. This was first claimed by Irish nationalists as a reason to end British rule and the Famine certainly put an end to the idea that Ireland would be a part of the United Kingdom for good. However, it is extraordinarily difficult to prove the claim true or false, and to my knowledge no one has. Records of exports simply weren't kept or have since been lost."

Cormac Ó Gráda's book "The Great Irish Famine" gives figures covering 1844 to 1848. Which demonstrates the effects that the repeal of the Corn Laws early in 1846 on the import of food into Ireland in 1846, 1847 and 1848 (The worst years of the famine).

Canon John O'Rourke reached the following conclusion in his book on the Famine:

"It is no doubt premature to proclaim the end of the "revisionist/anti-revisionist" conflict on the Famine, though it remains doubtful whether it can serve any useful future purpose. Many key facts are clear: the Irish Famine was real, not artificial, food was extremely scarce; it could not have been solved by closing the ports; charges of genocide cannot be sustained. However it is undoubtedly the case that the British response was inadequate and was unduly influenced both by domestic political concerns such as repeal of the corn laws and by Providentialism. On the other hand, it is equally clear that the Irish political response was also dictated by matters such as Repeal of the Union and the power struggle between O'Connell and Young Ireland. Mitchel's subsequent savage indictment of British government Famine policy conceals the fact that he and his colleagues offered no workable alternative at the time. ALL, including the radical land theorist James Fintan Lalor looked to the Irish landlord class to solve the Famine crisis; AT LEAST THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT WAS LESS NAÏVE."


3: " The crucial question in whether or not it is genocide comes down to intent. Did the English government intend to destroy the Irish people? The answer is no. They were heartlessly negligent, but neglect is not the same as murder. There was never any plan to wipe out the Irish NOR ANY ACTIONS THAT COULD BE VIEWED AS SUCH. The government didn't directly kill anyone nor did they deliberatively destroy any food. In fact the relief aid, pathetic as it was, does damage the genocide argument. After all, why would the government set up soup kitchens if it wanted the Irish to die?"

4: " There never was intent to destroy the Irish. Had the government really wanted to exterminate the Irish, they would have done more than let natural disasters run their course. The claims by Coogan and others, while passionate, simply do not have enough evidence to support themselves."

On Tim Pat Coogan's Book "The Famine Plot" he says this:

" It is worth pointing out that historians have criticised Coogan's book. Having read it, I must agree that it lacks thoroughness and fails to back up its claim that the Famine was genocide. LITTLE EVIDENCE IS GIVEN AND THERE ARE SURPRISINGLY FEW SOURCES USED."

Liked this as an example of warped logic that totally misrepresents:

" Nationalists have avoided the question altogether"

So John Mitchel did not state that the Famine was Britain's fault? Give me one single writer on the subject of the Famine writing from a "Nationalist" viewpoint who does not state exactly the same thing (Incidentally normally using and quoting Mitchel as their "definitive" source {Like Tim Pat Coogan}).

The problem of those who espouse the "nationalist" cause from across the pond is that they could not give a stuff about whether or not their writings would "give comfort to dissident republicans". Irish-Americans after all had no qualms at all about donating money for guns and explosives, until of course they felt what being on the receiving end of indiscriminate terrorist attacks felt like, only then did they want international co-operation and action taken to prevent countries acting as state sponsors of terrorism (Afghanistan was attacked on that premise).

Viewing Cartoons and articles of the time through 21st century eyes and applying our mores and political correctness to them is idiotic. Those views of racial supremacy were prevalent at the time in many countries around the world and across a whole raft of issues and they were not the sole preserve of the British establishment, John Mitchel (A self-declared believer in his racial superiority) fully approved of slavery irrespective of colour, the British establishment had at least been committed to stamping out the practice of slavery and the slave trade for 50 years when Mitchel opened up "The Southern Citizen" in 1857. John Mitchel is the man who gave birth to the myth that Britain "caused" the Famine, he stated that for political reasons to further his own political agenda and just because he said it does not necessarily make it true, or make it a fact.