One of the major problems of this forum, which has earned some of the threads on it the rightful description of "boring" is that a tiny number of rottweilers have attached themselves to a number of subjects; Israel, Muslims, Homosexuality, Ireland.... have taken each one of them over and ascertained that they cannot be discussed reasonably and democratically.
Discussion always starts with a reasonable input into the topic; people disagreeing with one another, but exchanging their views calmly and reasonably.
Then in come the guard-dogs and attach their vice-like grip on the topic until, one by one, everybody else walks away.
I was stupid enough to believe that rottweilers could be reasoned with; I think Muskie has fallen into the same trap - they really can't.
For them, it is about "winning" - and they are prepared to use any trick in the book to take home the glittering prizes.
You always know who they are; they are the ones who talk about having "won" arguments, and it is usually their name that is the last on the thread.
You really are wasting your time Muskie - while they are allowed to operate the way you do they will continue to send these discussions into earthbound spirals and they will eventually destroy this section of Mudcat until it is no longer viable.
Anyway - you've already been told that you haven't been around long enough to hold an opinion - just as I have been told that I have no right to hold my opinion because I choose not to live in Britain - thake their word for it - they are "infallible" - they've told us that as well.
As somebody once said about politics; "don't vote, it only encourages them".
Jim Carroll