Ebbie: ""...but, as noted in my previous post, there appears to be unsupported data as to WHEN those changes occur..." GfS
Quite likely they develop the hormonal changes when they decide to be gay."

'Deciding' to be a homosexual, has not been the issue...but that isn't the same as deciding not to be...as the testimony of Michael Spatze clearly illustrates.

Ebbie: "Whut?? "abnormalities of the brain?" "others born that way?"
Aren't you speaking of both? Or do you mean that the abnormalities occurred later?"

Don was the one who pulled up the brain differences, from studies he posted. As to when those differences happen he wasn't sure of, as he posted. However, the hormones affecting the nervous system through the receptors happen during gestation....much like babies who are addicted to certain drugs when they are born, because they had those substances during the fetus being formed...and the receptors got conditioned to 'needing' them.

Firth: "GfS, let me ask you this:   why do you object so strongly to the idea that sexual orientation could be the result of a gene or combination of genes?
True, they have not yet found a definitive "gay gene".

You answered your own question.

Firth:Senior Play like "You Can't Take It With You" and "Our Town,," and other productions were practically professional quality and many of those who acted, sang, and danced in these productions went on to Great Things. Movies, Broadway, Seattle and San Francisco Opera…….. Not all those who participated were gay, but a fair number of them were. Much higher percentage than the general population.

Suppress and alienate these folks and we ALL lose!"

And there is a great answer for that...ya' want the long answer or short one? (which I'll be happy to supply), Not withstanding, their talents is not the issue, which I acknowledge, and have posted as much....I'M NOT the one who doesn't think that their talent isn't worth passing on, or taking it out of the gene pool!!!...and once they flash that there IS something inside them, very much worth treasuring, and passing on, do they begin to reconsider.

Consider this post from '09....does it sound like I don't acknowledge their talent??...does it sound like 'bigotry' or 'homophobia'?? Not in the least!!!

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 May 09 - 04:28 AM

You have heard homosexuals say, "I FEEL like a woman trapped in a mans body(and vice versa)"...Ok?....Who gets trapped??!!?? VICTIMS!!!! Yes, VICTIMS..and who is victimizing them?........a combination, of neglect, and their sensitivities. That's how powerful it was! Ever notice some of the most brilliant artists, are homosexual??...Why? Sensitivities, and learning to speak to the other side of themselves, giving them sometimes a wider perspective!
I had originally thought of sharing a story with you, about a friend of mine, I mentioned in another post, I guy I knew, who was the most brilliant, composer, sound engineer, laser engineer, it think I had ever met, up to that point..and still heads and shoulders above many since. He taught me volumes about sound, and composing, that still is ahead of the pack. He finally opened up to me, when he finally felt no threat from me, or condemnation, but rather objective, caring, interest in him,, and his true inner needs. He and his father were distant, due to a long history of mutual bitterness, and disapproval. This guy was in the USMC Marine Band, had scholarships for music, and could play a variety of instruments..and WELL!
When we talked about sensitivities, I pointed out to him, that being sensitive was a huge quality, and being as he knew that, and we both acknowledged it, and he was gifted with it, I asked him, if instead of either resenting it, or hiding it, why not nurture it, in a child of his own, being as he knew so very well, how valuable, and powerful it was. Just hearing that, tears welled up in his eyes, and he admitted that he always wanted to do that, but didn't think he could because he had been Homosexual so long, that he lost touch with that ability, of what he really always wanted to do.
Not long after, he found his partner, Mark had come down with something he just could shake...and not too long after, Mark died of AIDS. Mark had the same issues with his dad, and in that, they found 'common ground'.
Deeply saddened, bordering on mourning, we talked more, and he opened up more. I asked him if his father had ever heard his incredible recordings. He was resolved to the thought, that his dad wouldn't like them, be interested in them, or him, and so his father never heard it.
Making a long post shorter, I'll skip the details of our conversations,(unless anyone is curious), and he took his recordings, and masters, up, and was going to get 're-acquainted with his dad, in Sacramento...possibly with the hopes of reconciling with him. Turns out, he stayed up there with him for better part of a year....and then died from AIDS, with his father, taking care of him, to the end.
So Dale, (the guy), you told me, that you wish you could have known before, and sooner...so where ever you are out there,..I'm honoring your wish..to all the other 'Dales' out there. I told you I would have, if I would have know sooner too!
Now, dying of AIDS was not the issue, I was trying to underscore. He could have died, for any reason....The thing is, my children's generation, is also denied of that genius and that gene pool is forever lost...NEEDLESSLY!!!!!! THOUGHTLESSLY!!!
What I just related to you, is the absolute truth....and to all those who give me crap, about being a 'bigot' or 'hating' homosexuals..."

GfS

P.S. Sorry I was so late in getting back, but I've been swamped!