To say that at one time society put up with things it doesn't do now fits perfectly with when people began dismissing religion in large numbers.

And the change also marks the time when religion became a voluntary thing, instead of something that was required by societal pressure. I think that to a large degree, a religion embodies the standards of its members, rather than the members marching to the tune played by the religious group. Throughout history, religion has served to institutionalize and reinforce societal taboos - but the taboos flowed from society, and did not appear by church decree. Now, of course there is some back-and-forth on this, but I think it's clear that religious morality mirrors societal norms. Now that religion is voluntary, there is a vast change. Richard Bridge's rabid nuns and rabid religions and satanic beliefs no longer exist. Well, the Satanists exist, but they're a much nicer earth-based religion now.

Now, Musket, you couldn't possibly understand the reality of this because your preconceptions will not allow you to actually read some Catholic Church proclamations on moral issues, to see how such things actually work. They are now published in the form of "attempts to persuade," and that's been the general format since mean old Pius IX died in 1878.

And I repeat again that the last of these mass-grave deaths happened in 1961, 53 years ago. That's not to dismiss the seriousness of the offense - it's to remind you of the reality that this isn't happening now, and it hasn't happened in a long, long time. The Catholic Church of today, isn't anything like it was 53 years ago - despite lingering stodginess in a number of areas. I visited a number of Sisters of Mercy convents when I was in Ireland a couple of years ago. The scary nuns are all good, and all you see in Irish convents now are nice old ladies who are obsessed with making tea - and it's darn good tea, too.

I suppose that one very detrimental aspect of the Church, was its cosiness with government in much of Western Europe, and most particularly in Ireland. In the U.S., government inspectors monitor religious schools and hospitals and institutions - and since Church and State aren't in bed together, one institution serves as a check on the other. For the most part, Church and State seem to be moving apart in Europe, and I think that's healthy.

-Joe-