OK, Jim, the diarrhea was probably caused by a sex-addicted nun who was on holiday from her usual practice of devil-worshipping with her Imaginary Friend. Does that satisfy you?

I'm sorry, Jim, it must be my thirty years of experience as an investigator. I want to know the truth, and I hate things that smack of propaganda and prejudice.

While almost all of the stories of the child molestations and the mother-baby homes and the industrial schools and the Magdalene Laundries are true, they all have been reported as "new" information so many times, that readers cannot get any sense of the true proportion of the problem. The propagandists are recycling old stories so often, that it has come to the point where people starting not to believe it anymore. And when actual new information develops and needs to be heard, people won't be listening anymore. People really need to know the truth of this story, because it is a very important one.

When you posted your story, I thought at first you were referring to Tuam because Tuam was what we were talking about. On second reading, I did come to understand that incident was in Cork. And then mg reported a green diarrhea story with similar details, as if it were a new incident that hadn't already been reported in the thread. I simply wanted to make it clear that it was not an additional incident. Could it be that you actually would find it offensive that I would do that? And I did not re-post your link - I posted a link to your message, although I cannot imagine what would be wrong with re-posting a link somebody else posted, if it helped to clarify what I was trying to say. And why in the world would you be so peeved about my referring to the hypothetical possibility of your using screws and a screwdriver in a home improvement project? It is below your lofty station in life to do home improvement projects, or what?

You're just being peevish, Jim, and for no reason. I think you're better than that.

You say: the Church has proven itself beyond all doubt to be totally unsuited and unfit to have any say in how our lives are run, other than through spiritual guidance, and even this must be accepted voluntarily and be subject to close scrutiny.
They have shown themselves to be untrustworthy, particularly when it comes to contact with children.

I'm not sure my opinion is all that different from yours in the end result. I've never deemed Catholic Church "authority" to be anything more than advisory, so I don't really mind if Catholic Church authorities say whatever they want to say - and it makes me nervous to hear proposals that their freedom to speak should be restricted. I think that in general, Catholic bishops and the Pope have spoken very wisely over the last 150 years about issues of peace and warfare, capital punishment, justice to workers, the rights of immigrants, racial prejudice, the avarice of capitalism, and a number of other social justice issues - and I am very proud that they have had the courage to speak out on these matters. In the United States, the Catholic Church is one of the few voices against American militarism, capital punishment, and oppression of immigrants and workers. I would hate to see that voice silenced.
On the other hand, I don't think Catholic bishops and the pope know the first thing about sex, marriage, children, and family life. Parish priests have direct, daily contact with families and family crises, and often may have great wisdom in these matters (despite their celibacy). But bishops and popes rarely have contact with the experiences of real family life, and their foolish pronouncements prove it. Pope John Paul II came up with a campaign to teach the "Theology of the Body," particularly to teenagers, and that campaign makes me very nervous because it is so unrealistic. I work in youth ministry with teenage kids, and the other leaders want the kids to go to "Theology of the Body" retreats conducted by conservative organizations. I want these kids to have a realistic understanding of things, and still look on sex as something sacred. I'm finding it's a delicate thing to deal with, since most of the parents in my area are quite conservative. There's a reason why I've made friends with all of the conservative families in my parish - many of them homeschool their children, some in families of 6, 7, or 8 kids. I do my best to tone down that conservatism. And I've often found that I really enjoy the families and that they enjoy me despite my liberalism.

But then you say, They have shown themselves to be untrustworthy, particularly when it comes to contact with children. And then I'm not so sure. I have found many members of Catholic religious orders, particularly Jesuits, who have a passion for teaching kids how to think for themselves and get past all the bullshit and propaganda that surrounds us. Yes, there are a few sexual predators among them, as there are wherever there are children. But I've watched many of these priests and brothers and sisters in action, and it's thrilling to see the brilliance they can draw out of young men and women. I do presentations to kids who go to Catholic schools, and to kids who go to government-owned schools. At least in the U.S., the Catholic school kids are far, far better than those going to state-owned schools. The Catholic school kids get actively engaged in discussions, and the public school kids feign ignorance (or maybe they ARE ignorant). For the most part, I have found kids in U.S. Catholic schools to be more open-minded than those in state-run schools. The Catholic school kids have been taught to relish debate, and often the public school kids just listen to their iPods.

But here in the U.S., we cannot even imagine churches running schools and institutions that are paid for by government money. If a church runs a school in the U.S., the students have to pay their own tuition.

If I understand things correctly, churches often run schools in Europe that are paid for entirely by taxpayer money. In some countries (Germany is one, I believe), the operating cost of churches is paid for by taxation. To us Americans, that is simply incredible. We wouldn't dream of having our churches controlled by the government that way.

I sent my kids to Catholic schools, but I paid every penny of the cost of their education (while paying taxes that paid for the public school education they could have had for free). And believe me, it was expensive - so I made damn sure they got a good education, so I served a good number of years on the school board and visited every classroom every year to sing songs and tell stories.

-Joe-