The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #154680   Message #3631891
Posted By: Joe Offer
10-Jun-14 - 05:12 AM
Thread Name: BS: Dead babies and Tuam Bon Secours nuns
Subject: RE: BS: Dead babies and Tuam Bon Secours nuns
OK, so I guess now I should answer Musket, who says:
If you are purely judging this institution then the police report will be a source of evidence (not judgement.) However, the overall fitness for purpose of church run social care already has legal judgements against it and has been found wanting.

Interestingly, with little chance of finding anyone still around who made decisions there, it will never have full legal closure, so the stain will remain. All the more important that the Catholic Church demonstrate how they will in future prevent such things happening in their name.

If they can't, how can they therefore take credit for some of the good things carried out in their name?   The days of religious organisations having it both ways are over in civilised society. Too many cracks for the wallpaper to cover.


Musket, you are still basing your conclusions on your assumption of uniformity and central control within the Catholic Church, and that assumption of yours is absolutely false. Rather than making an overall judgment that covers all billion members of the Catholic Church, you must view the Catholic Church as a loose affiliation of independent individuals and independent organizations, who operate almost completely without control from outside forces or from the Vatican.

Some organizations and religious orders in the Catholic Church have a proven record of responsible operation of institutions for the education and care of children. Some have a horrible record. Some are to be trusted with children, and some are not. It is impossible to make a blanket statement that would apply to the entire, billion-member Catholic Church.

You demand "that the Catholic Church demonstrate how they will in future prevent such things happening in their name." And if you trusted such a demonstration, you would be foolhardy. The bishops of the Catholic Church have done a lot to establish controls over such things, but your assumption of uniformity gets in the way again. Controls that apply to an entire church or to an entire diocese can be effective only to a degree. The scrutiny must take place on a lower level and must be far more direct than a diocese can manage.

Oh, and then there's a restatement of how the Catholic Church can't "have it both ways," which is another display of your erroneous assumption of uniformity in the Catholic Church. You say, "The days of religious organisations having it both ways are over in civilised society" - and you are absolutely wrong. The Catholic Church will forever be flawed and will forever be plagued with horrible scandal, while at the same time others in the Catholic Church will do amazingly good things. That is the reality of things in a billion-member organization. Some of its members will do wonderful things, and some will do horrible things - and there will never, ever be the uniformity that people expect to see in the Catholic Church.

-Joe-

Click here for an analysis of the story from Forbes Magazine. I think it has a far more realistic perspective, although I'll stick to my theory that the bones in the septic tank may have been moved there after they were found in unmarked graves that were dug up when the property was made into a subdivision.