Mr Shaw from the exchange regarding Israel the USA and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty I can only infer that you are a complete and utter feckin' eedjit.

Israel's "peaceful" nuclear programme was started shortly after those of the United Kingdom and that of France, it is supposed that Israel became a nuclear weapon state about 13 years BEFORE the Nuclear NPT came into effect. Israel is a non-signatory to that treaty so could you explain to us all, by whatever convoluted stretch and leap of logic precisely why the terms and conditions of the said Nuclear NPT should apply to Israel?

Ah yes all that aid from the USA going to Israel. Well not exactly aid Mr.Shaw they are "credits" that Israel can use or not at their discretion, and they have to be spent in the USA, or if spent in Israel the work resulting from that spent is subject to certain restrictions and prior US approvals. Now why did the USA and Israel feel the need for this "aid"? Ever hear of a thing called "The Cold War"? When US President Dwight D. Eisenhower fucked up right royally in 1956 and failed to back the UK and France over Suez almost overnight he created the following situation for America and the middle-east:

1: Egypt under Nasser found it had a reinforceable border with Israel which included a massive salient projecting deeply into the former mandated territory of Palestine (Gaza) which Egypt had taken by force in 1948.

2: Had Eisenhower backed Britain and France then to get to Israel, Egypt, the leader of the pan-Arabist movement at the time, would have had to confront and break through territory controlled by two permanent sitting members of the UN Security Council (Britain and France) before it could ever create trouble with Israel.

3: The USSR's backing of Nasser meant that most Arabs states fell into the USSR's sphere of influence and the USSR started dishing out the aid she is best known for giving - ARMS

4: The Arab countries of North Africa meant that the USSR secured the Southern shores of the Mediterranean and for the first time ever the USA had to deploy a "Mediterranean Fleet" (IIRC it was the US Sixth Fleet) prior to that the US had maintained a naval presence in the Mediterranean dating back to the early 19th century at a "Naval Squadron" level.

Israel DID get by without that aid in 1948 and her armed forces have never looked back since. The IDF exists to PROTECT Israel whereas the armed forces of Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and every other armed group supported by Arab States exist to ensure that whoever is in power stays in power withing the confines of their own borders - i.e. to suppress civilian dissent, which is why they tend to fare badly when confronted with trained opposition.

Glad you brought up Egypt and the Army - Nothing to do with the "big, bad, West" - the Army has been in control of Egypt ever since Colonel Gamal Abdel Nasser deposed King Farouk of Egypt in 1952 - to date nothing whatsoever has changed.

I did bring up Egypt and Jordan because they made agreements with Israel that they got their land back if they stopped attacking Israel. Since signing those deals there have been no attacks - so those "peace talks" were not only "meaningful" they actually "worked". Different completely to the talks between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs and the Syrians, but exactly the same would apply if the attacks stopped then sovereignty would be respected (Israel as I said has a proven track record of holding to its agreements and keeping their side of the bargain - Hamas, Hezbollah and Al-Fatah on the other hand DO NOT)

Rather amused by your "naughty child" analogy. Now you tell me who is acting the part of the "Naughty Child":

1947 - UN propose a two-state solution, the Jews of Palestine agree the Arabs of Palestine reject the UN's proposals and opt for war in 1948 ( A war that they lose) Who was the "Naughty Child"?

1949 - After losing the War in 1948 the UN brokers a ceasefire in which Israel's Arab neighbours and the Arabs of Palestine sign agreeing to the borders defined by the agreement and to cease attacks on Israel. The attacks by Arab Fedayeen based in Egypt, Jordan and Syria continue from 1949 until 1956. Who is the "Naughty Child"?

Keeps going on in that vein right to this day (1967, 1973, 1978, 1982, 1993, 1996, 2000, 2005, 2006, 2008) - As far as the Arabs of Palestine go - their word is about as good as Hitler's was in the 1930s. Who is the "Naughty Child"?

67 years they have had to sort this out - let them get on with it.