Steve: your standard of argument on this thread not up to usual quality. Mainly merely assertive rather than rationally postulated.

Keith: Yes. There is very much to denounce in the dire disappointing land that Israel has turned out, against all our early hopes, to be. But that does not prevent the motivations of a whole lot of people who incessantly denounce it, & it alone, among all the nations of the world, must clearly be exceedingly suspect.

Not that Jim will believe I mean it. He seems to think that, becoz I look for justice in posts like this one, I am only ½·❤-ed in my denunciations & go on loving the place after all. I can never convince him otherwise. If I stood on a box at Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park, & yelled full volume, "Israel is shit; Israelis are all cunts" 500 times, he still wouldn't be convinced, & would still go on calling it "lip-service". Just one of that multitude of things on which the Carroll-mind-made-up is entirely impenetrable, so I've just given up on trying to convince him.

Are you listening, Jim?

≈M≈