"Lloyd, MacColl, Sharp, Baring Gould, Scott, Buchan, Motherwell, Jamieson, Percy, et al have all rightly come under scrutiny and criticism, but what can't be denied is that their contribution by far outweighs any flaw in their work."
an understatement, but a positive remark, which was one of my earlier points,about positivity and negativity, but as far as MacColl and Lloyd go their contribution was far more than their work, they both are owed a debt of gratituide for their promotion and involvement in the setting up of folk clubs, MacColl was a fine songwriter in my opinion one of the best from the UK folk revival, many of MacColls songs have entered the tradition.
I have read every post on this thread, and on previous threads about Bert Lloyd.There is nothing positive in this post.
"Subject: AL Lloyd, is he the one that got away
From: GUEST,Nick Dow - PM
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:13 PM

OK if I am wrong I deserve a serious verbal kicking, I REALLY want to be wrong, because I met Bert and respected him. but the more research I do the more worried I am about some of Berts industrial songs,

I know he wrote the odd verse, to the and the Coal owner and the pitmans wife but I have found the following

With my pit boots on appears to be a word for word take from William Stokes of Chew Magna Somerset 'With my kettle Smock on' with pit boots substituted and a different tune

The tune for the weaver and the Factory maid seems to be taken from Elizabeth Mogg Doddington Somerset from her fragment The Irish Boy and attributed to William Oliver of Widnes who appears to have sung only one other song if he existed at all.

Underneath her apron appears to be a hybrid version. So it goes on...

I have no real axe to grind and no particular interest in industrial Folksong I just keep coming accross tunes and words that sort of appear to be in the wrong place, if that makes any sense. Warning bells keep going off and a nasty voice keeps whispering , We've been taken for a ride here!! Please tear me to shreds I want to be wrong, or am I going to have to agree with Dave Harker that AL LLoyd WAS the one that got away".
I will continue to defend Lloyd and put any negative criticisms into perspective by pointing out his positives,which in my opinion easily outweigh his negatives, the original poster asks for a verbal kicking, then accuses me of being offensive when he gets it, this thread has not thrown any new light on Lloyd but has just been a tedious rehash of previous threads about Lloyd.