"So how would YOU describe the imperialistic, self-righteous, gunboat diplomacy foreign policy of the U.S. down to the present day, Bill? "

Well gee, Greg... short answer is, I don't.... because I don't accept your premise. (You didn't ask me if I've stopped beating my wife yet.)

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Rahere: "Objectively, having taken you to a position which you find uncomfortable with, I must lead you on to the corollary, reminding you that in fact it is the presumption that you can do nothing which is wrong. "

Far from ever even considering the idea that 'we can do nothing which is wrong', I am frustrated that it is hard to even define what would be involved in 'doing something everyone agrees is right'.


What I am really uncomfortable with is a situation in which there seems to be NO solution that addresses the root causes of the current chaos. But I disagree that you have accurately defined a corollary...especially to a situation that is not itself clearly defined.

I admire, respect and approve of the goals & policy of the WEU as you have described them, but setting out a political & moral agenda barely touches the pragmatic issues of how best to approach it.

I have never, as you have, been directly involved in negotiation about policy.... and I also " far prefer jaw-jaw to the alternative." I just am personally not privy to the information that a government or security agency needs to decide when "the alternative" is required. G.W Bush got it very wrong a few years ago... whether thru stupidity or being lied to by his sources (I suspect some of both.) Many of our Senators were told that we had convincing evidence of Saddam's weapons & intentions, and they gave those assessments the benefit of the doubt.... and were wrong! After such a blunder, there is no simple way to back out gracefully! And no matter what the next administration did, it got lumped in as "failed US policies". If the US had stayed out of WWII, that would have been "failed policy".

But the original topic here was US gun laws... and I submit that the basic problem internally is pragmatically similar to the international one: there is an untenable situation, and no one can define a solution that will both **work** and not cause as many problems as it cures.

After 600+ posts here, I still see remarks that are little more than finger pointing and suggesting that " we just straighten up & fly right!"


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""The objective of all dedicated employees is to thoroughly analyze all situations, anticipate all problems prior to their occurrence, have answers for these problems, and move swiftly to solve these problems when called upon. However, when you are up to your ass in alligators, it is difficult to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp."