The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #156062 Message #3678562
Posted By: Teribus
20-Nov-14 - 01:58 AM
Thread Name: Oh! What a Lovely War! - BBC Radio 2
Subject: RE: Oh! What a Lovely War! - BBC Radio 2
Put simply GUEST,18 Nov 14 - 11:17 AM. do not believe a single word of your little story - If it had any shred of truth in it at all you would never have had to ask your first question.
But from another thread on the subject:
Here is the list of the Historians who trashed Alan Clark's work (Which apparently inspired OWALW according to the popular train of thought and eventual credits and royalty payments), none of them have ever been accused of being incompetent:
Brian Bond is a British military historian and professor emeritus of military history at King's College London. Bond served as a member of council of the Society for Army Historical Research and as President of the British Commission for Military History.
Sir Hew Francis Anthony Strachan FRSE FRHistS is a Scottish military historian, well known for his work on the administration of the British Army and the history of the First World War. He is Chichele Professor of the History of War at All Souls College, Oxford, a brigadier of reserves, and a council member of the Royal Company of Archers, the Queen's Bodyguard for Scotland.
Gary Sheffield is an English academic at the University of Wolverhampton and a military historian. He has published widely, especially on the First World War, and contributes to many newspapers, journals and magazines. He frequently broadcasts on television and radio. Sheffield studied history at the University of Leeds under Edward Spiers and Hugh Cecil. He followed his basic degree course with a research MA. In 1985, he became a lecturer in War Studies at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, and studied at King's College, London under Brian Bond for a part-time PhD awarded in 1994. In 1999 he became a senior lecturer in the Defence Studies Department of King's College London and Land Warfare Historian on the Higher Command and Staff Course at the UK's Joint Services Command and Staff College. In 2005 he was appointed Professor of Modern history at King's College London. Since 2009, Prof Sheffield has been a Vice President of The Western Front Association.
Richard Holmes, was a British soldier and noted military historian, particularly well-known through his many television appearances. He was co-director of Cranfield University's Security and Resilience Group from 1989 to 2009 and became the Professor of Military and Security Studies at Cranfield in 1995. Of "The Donkeys" Holmes wrote the following:
"..it contained a streak of casual dishonesty. Its title is based on the 'Lions led by Donkeys' conversation between Hindenburg [sic] and Ludendorff. There is no evidence whatever for this: none. Not a jot or scintilla. Liddell Hart, who had vetted Clark's manuscript, ought to have known it."
Note: Basil Liddell Hart wrote to Alan Clark and asked him for a the source of the "Lions led by Donkeys" quote – Clark never replied (And well we know why).
John Alfred Terraine, though not permanently associated with any academic institution, was a leading British military historian and founding President of the Western Front Association from 1980 to 1997, after which he became its Patron. "One obituarist wrote that for sheer scholarship, the quality and accessibility of his writing and for his debunking of historical myths, Terraine was one of the outstanding military historians of the 20th century". He was for many years a member of the Royal United Services Institute for Defence Studies; he had been awarded the Institute's Chesney Gold Medal in 1982. He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society in 1987.
Robert Norman William Blake, Baron Blake was an English historian. Tutor in Politics at Christ Church, Oxford, and in 1968 was elected Provost of The Queen's College, Oxford, a post held until retirement in 1987.
Hugh Redwald Trevor-Roper, Baron Dacre of Glanton, was an English scholar and historian of early modern Britain and Nazi Germany and Regius Professor of Modern History at Oxford University (He was Alan Clark's History Tutor at Oxford).
Alan John Percivale "A. J. P." Taylor FBA was an English historian who specialised in 19th- and 20th-century European diplomacy. Both a journalist and a broadcaster, he became well known to millions through his television lectures. His combination of academic rigour and popular appeal led the historian Richard Overy to describe him as "the Macaulay of our age".
Sir Michael Eliot Howard OM CH CBE MC FBA is a British military historian, formerly Chichele Professor of the History of War, Emeritus Fellow of All Souls College, Regius Professor of Modern History at Oxford University, was the Robert A. Lovett Professor of Military and Naval History at Yale University and founder of the Department of War Studies, King's College London. Of Clark's book Howard wrote the following:
"As history, it is worthless", criticising its "slovenly scholarship".
The phrase "Lions Led by Donkeys " was used as a title for a book published in 1927 by Captain P.A. Thompson. The subtitle of this book was "Showing how victory in the Great War was achieved by those who made the fewest mistakes."
Now tell me Guest who was it that achieved VICTORY after four years of war again? Which Army according to Captain Thompson (Who like your "Grandpa" HAD BEEN THERE) made the fewest mistakes??
Here are the figures for the principal combatant nations engaged on the "Western Front" from the outset:
Britain - Population 45.4 million, % deaths 1.79% to 2.2%
France - Population 39.6 million, % deaths 4.29% to 4.39%
Germany - Population 64.9 million, % deaths 3.39% to 4.32%
Straightforward military deaths: Britain - 888,246 France - 1,397,800 Germany - 2,037,000
OK you tell me in which nation's Army would YOU have stood the best chance of survival?