The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #156062   Message #3682722
Posted By: Teribus
05-Dec-14 - 06:54 AM
Thread Name: Oh! What a Lovely War! - BBC Radio 2
Subject: RE: Oh! What a Lovely War! - BBC Radio 2
Lighter thanks for the correction and the information.

Christmas:
1: "Wrong type of shells - that's ok then"

Well yes basically it is if that is all you have then that is what you fire at the enemy. In 1914 Britain's army was tiny, primarily because unlike Germany Britain had not spent the last 20 years preparing an army for war. Between 1914 and much of 1915 the only place making artillery shells for the British Army was the Royal Arsenal Woolwich. Our pal Kitchener had warned the politicians the day he took over as Secretary of State for War that Great Britain would have to raise and equip an army of millions - and guess what Christmas that cannot happen overnight - so let us stick to dealing with reality - you fight with what you've got and that is what Sir John French did, and he fought because he had to, it was not a matter of choice.

2: "Britain had a duty to oppose what was being done by one of its allies"

Tell me Christmas what alliance are you talking about? What ally are you talking about? Belgium was never an ally of Great Britain's until German troops invaded Belgium and violated her neutrality, which Great Britain, Austria, Prussia, France, Russia and the Netherlands had solemnly sworn to respect and uphold under the terms and conditions of the Treaty of London 1839. In 1914 Great Britain was bound by no formal military alliances.

3: There is no such country as Britain, never has been such a country. Main Island of the British Isles hosted three nations, the English, the Welsh and the Scots. In the reign of Edward I Wales became a Principality under English rule. In 1603 a Scottish King succeeded to the throne of England, in 1707 the Act of Union joined the two nation states of Scotland and England to form the country known as Great Britain. Ireland joined in 1800 to form state officially and correctly known as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and that was what it was known as in 1914.

4: "Campaigns were being carried out - notebly by Mark Twain, to stop the slaughter in the Congo

Ah Mark Twain - all on his own was he? Ever hear of Roger Casement who at the time was a member of the British Colonial Service?

" In 1903 the British government commissioned Casement, then the British consul at Boma in the Congo Free State, to investigate the human-rights situation in that Belgian colony of Leopold II.

Casement traveled for weeks in the upper Congo Basin to interview people throughout the region, including workers, overseers and mercenaries. He delivered a long, detailed eyewitness report to the Crown that exposed abuses: "the enslavement, mutilation, and torture of natives on the rubber plantations," the Casement Report of 1904.

Casement's report provoked controversy, and some companies with a business interest in the Congo rejected its findings, as did Casement's former boss, Alfred Lewis Jones. In the longer term, Casement's report would prove instrumental in gaining international pressure that forced Leopold in 1908 to relinquish his personal holdings in Africa.

When the report was made public, opponents of Leopold formed interest groups, such as the Congo Reform Association, founded by E. D. Morel with Casement's support, and demanded action to relieve the situation of the natives. Other European nations followed suit, as did the United States; and the British Parliament demanded a meeting of the 14 signatory powers to review THE 1885 BERLIN AGREEMENT defining interests in Africa. The Belgian Parliament, forced Léopold to set up an independent commission of inquiry. In 1905, despite Léopold's efforts, it confirmed the essentials of Casement's report. On 15 November 1908, the parliament of Belgium took over the Congo Free State from Léopold and organised its administration as the Belgian Congo."


So Christmas don't you dare say that the British Government stood back and did nothing - as well documented evidence clearly demonstrates otherwise.

5: Something that I think I should point out and emphasise:

During the Great War from 1914 until half way through 1916 every single man that served in the British Armed Forces were volunteers, they were not recruited as those who had served before had been recruited, they volunteered, they WENT in droves to Army recruitment offices. The primary reason at the time between August and December 1914 was that the BEF had been in action in France and had lost men at Mons, Le Cateau and on the Marne - roughly 1,200,000 men from Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland, entirely of their own free will joined up to serve their country and fill the gaps left in the ranks and increase the Army's strength..

In this the volunteer armed forces of Great Britain were unique as all the armies of all the other combatant nations used the system of universal conscription - their young men had absolutely no choice whatsoever - all had done their "national service" and all served time in their army's "reserve" so that when war came their armies numbered in millions - millions of men who had absolutely no choice.

In 1916 when the British Government introduced conscription it was far from universal and only applied in England, Scotland and in Wales.

It was under the leadership of those OWALW pours scorn and ridicule on that Great Britain's first ever citizen army of some 5.3 million men was created in under two years.

It was under the leadership of those OWALW pours scorn and ridicule on that Great Britain emerged from the Great War as the only country whose Armies had not mutinied in the field and whose civilian population had not once ever rioted against their Government.

It was under the leadership of those OWALW pours scorn and ridicule that that first ever, hastily raised citizen Army defeated what at the time was considered to be the best and most powerful Army in the world - and they did it in 100 days.

Were things always perfect? - No of course they weren't.

Were mistakes made? - Of course there were.

But none of that detracts from what was accomplished - and quite frankly if none of you are honest enough with yourselves and are too mean in spirit to give credit where credit is due - then all I can say is that I am very, very pleased to say that I do not walk in your shoes