"Musket - PM
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 01:07 PM

Talking about misrepresentation Musket:

I know some bloke in Scotland and I occasionally share a post or two, but let me beat him to stating that

You complete and utter fraud you ARE GUEST,Some bloke from Scotland.

"you are not repeating what your pet few historians are saying."

We pretty much are reflecting what the majority of historians currently writing about the First World War are saying, and what they are saying is based upon a great deal more information than any who have written on the subject previously.

"You are misrepresenting their work whilst making the sacrifice of the fallen look competent and necessary."

Nope, everyone who was involved in the decision to enter the war, everyone in the country, civilian and military alike, all fully realized that there would be sacrifice – that is unavoidable in war, the other thing that was fully accepted as being a reality was that such sacrifice would only be made if it was thought to be necessary.

"You say they were well led."

They were generally well led in comparison to the leadership demonstrated in the armies of any other combatant nation, they were all fighting the same war, at the same time and facing the same problems. Under those circumstances the British and Commonwealth Armies did adopt and adapt their tactics and that is reflected in them having lower casualties than the other combatant powers. The British and Commonwealth Armies suffered no instances of mutiny in the field and from 1917 onward were the only allied power fighting on the western front willing and capable of mounting offensive operations.

"The majority died carrying out the orders of their leaders, not the inaction of them."

So Musket what you are saying is that - Leaders should not lead and orders should never be given? No bloody wonder the NHS is in such a shit state, despite the billions it has had thrown at it. Two men cast adrift in a rowing boat Musket – if they want to stand any chance at surviving their ordeal – one of them has to the Captain.

Lloyd George was all for adopting a passive attitude and had his advice been followed then Great Britain and France would have lost the war. But our men would have still died in droves Musket. Had it not been for weather in 1917 the war could have ended then, it didn't but German Armies were shifted off the high ground and they were pushed back sufficiently so that when after millions of experienced battle-hardened men had been transferred from the Eastern front in 1918 to mount the last gasp German Spring Offensive as they broke through the British Front in Flanders what did they break into? Rolling green fields? An undisturbed landscape over which they could move easily and freely? No they broke through into the quagmire that had been the battlefields of Passchendael and the Somme and their logistics chain broke down. They broke through into a landscape that "we" knew intimately a landscape that we knew how to move through and that they didn't. They broke into a landscape that exhausted them and swallowed them up. It would have been quite the reverse if Lloyd George had had his way. Had we not fought the Somme, had we not fought Messines and Passchendael then in the Spring of 1918 when the German onslaught fell we would have been thrown back into the channel and the Germans would have marched into Paris.

"The casualty numbers were not necessary."

So you say. So what was the alternative? Sit there and let the enemy artillery massacre you at will?

"You say they knew what they were doing and why."

Yes I asked both my Grandfather's and they most certainly said that they did.

"I fail to see that a whole generation of men could ignore and not be driven by the jingoistic propaganda. "

Why Musket is that because you yourself are susceptible to being overly influenced by propaganda? I'm not. Different generation Musket, these were men who were proud of their country, proud of the Empire and men who had an over-riding sense of responsibility, obligation and duty to their country - in short Musket thankfully far, far better men than you. I obviously have a far higher opinion of them than you do.