Steve Shaw crawling fast
'S all right, Stu. Snail does think that evolution happens, he just doesn't think it's true, that's all. Confusing, innit! :-)

Thank you for your stout defense of me,Steve. I think we may have some progress here, you're almost beginning to understand what I am on about. But not quite. It's not that I think evolution isn't true it's that I don't think statements like "Evolution is true." belong in a scientific discussion.

Stu
You can in, er, snails. You can even be involved in educating yourself and destroying your own ignorant delusions by using empirical evidence you gather.

Actually, Stu, I'm quite well educated including university level courses in Evolution and Genetics. Like Steve, I've got a certificate, several in fact.

Thank you for your link to the snails example, I know of it of old. I suppose we can excuse it on the grounds that it is clearly aimed at a very young audience but, even so, it is very sloppy science. Never the less, it does help me illustrate the point. The only empirical evidence in it is that there is variation in the shell colours and patterns of banded snails and that the distribution of that variation correlates with the distribution of thrushes, their main predators. There is nothing there that is a direct observation of evolution. Evolution arises in the interpretation of the empirical evidence. Worse than that, they have decided in advance that evolution is the answer and set out to prove it. That isn't how science works.

Thanks for the link to "Scientists and Science Education ", Ed T. The full article starts off "Although evolution is firmly established as one of the most important, integrative, and robust concepts in science...". Yep. Evolution is a scientific concept. Sounds good to me. Steve Shaw would have it otherwise. In this very thread - "the truth of evolution's existence on Earth is beyond science".

I'm very much in favour of the forces of reason, Stu. I think science is a really great idea. I just don't like people turning it (and evolution in particular) into a religion.