It is very important to the ethos of a place like this that bigotry of the Keith/Ake/pete variety is directly confronted so that, to outsiders, the place itself doesn't look bigoted. Akenaton and pete will never change their attitudes whatever you say.

I am pretty sure that Pete and Ake and Keith wouldn't participate in nearly the number of threads they do if people weren't continually PREDICTING that they would and predicting that while participating would behave in a certain fashion. Talk about borrowing trouble. Instead of ignoring those who you totally disagree with and letting them slip away because of lack of interest in their claims, or pointing out particularly bigotted posts to be removed by a moderator, you have to go hammer and tongs into the SAME STUPID ARGUMENTS YOU'VE BEEN WAGING FOR YEARS. You are no better than those you argue with, because you feed that fire and keep the argument going.

The article Ed T linked to is interesting. It's long, I haven't had a chance to finish reading the entire thing. As I started it I predicted to myself that regulars at mudcat would argue about the examples instead of looking at the larger picture - how we process Argument (capital A, as in debate or rhetoric) but instead you're arguing about how you have to defend your intellectual territory about things that AREN'T EVEN IN THIS ARTICLE. Steve, you're not protecting mudcat from anything when you keep up the same old arguments. You're subjecting it to ridicule and abandonment by the serious musicians who used to inhabit the place.

SRS