Keith, with all the respect I can muster, and I speak for myself though I may get support, I'm sick to the back teeth of you and your historians. You have used a joke I first made months ago to resurrect the damn thing, so round and round and round we go. You know that you will not get anyone additional to agree, so give up why don't you. The thing is dead. The horse will no longer whinny. The tank is empty. I look deep into the topic's eyes but there's no-one driving. Most important, the sword of truth is not in your scabbard. Do those goths still hang around the canal bank in Hertford?