The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #29239   Message #370107
Posted By: Little Hawk
06-Jan-01 - 10:02 PM
Thread Name: BS: Conservative Cavalry, Continued
Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Cavalry, Continued
Yup, Carol, it's just you and the accordion. C'est la vie...

John P - You asked..."I'm curious: Do you feel that you are living under a fascist regime, like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, because your populace is not generally carrying guns around? Or because you require those who want to have guns to know how to use them safely?

Well...I actually feel that all present regimes are "fascist" to some extent...the question is to what extent? Governments are supposed to exist in order to SERVE the people, but I think you will find that they sometimes turn that equation around backwards, and assume that the people are there to serve them. Of course, it is in the interest of the people to have a coherently functioning society, and for that we DO need a governmental structure, and so on...

There are no really simple answers to these matters. It's necessary for a good government to serve its people in order to maintain its legitimacy. Likewise, it's necessary for a good citizen to serve the greater community around him by obeying the laws.

So...are the laws right, just, and proper? Every individual has to decide that for himself. If he decides that a law is NOT just or proper, then he has to decide whether it is worth opposing...either passively or actively. Civil disobedience can be a legitimate response to an unjust law...if you agree that it IS unjust. If you don't, then the person committing that civil disobedience will be seen as perhaps...a criminal...or someone who has been misled...but he will see himself as an idealist who is fighting for human rights.

And so it goes.

You also asked: "Do you find that your homes are being invaded on a regular basis by criminals with guns, and that you could defend yourself against this if you had a gun, or that it would make any difference if you didn't have a license to keep the gun? How about our friends in the UK? I believe you have stricter gun laws than we do. How's the state of your society?"

Are homes in Canada being invaded by criminals with guns on a regular basis? No. Very rarely. I don't actually recall ever having met someone whose home was invaded by a criminal with a gun. I know that it occasionally happens, and when it does the press pays a great deal of attention to the matter...such that you might think it was happening "on a regular basis".

I would actually rather defend myself with a baseball bat or a frying pan, since I would be more likely to injur and deter the criminal rather than kill him. I don't relish the thought of killing another human being. Also, he is much more likely to try to kill me if I am trying to kill him...because he is no doubt scared out of his wits to find someone pointing a gun at him, and he will most likely shoot at once, without considering the consequences.

This is precisely why the police in England did NOT carry guns for most of the 20th century. They rightly reasoned that if they did not, then most of the criminals would not either...and it WORKED! (riminals who did resort to firearms suffered very severe penalties, and there were special detective units called out to deal with them....it rarely happened).

I realize, however, that it's way too late for a solution of that kind (police without sidearms) to work anymore in the U.K. or the USA or Canada either, for that matter. Things have deteriorated badly in the last 50 years (roughly since the advent of television and the highly mobile, anonymous consumer society we have today, where people may not even know their neighbours across the hall!).

I do think this. Material possessions are not worth killing another human being over. If you think they are, then you have to determine what a human life is really worth...as opposed to a stereo, a TV, a computer...or whatever.

Yes, I know that the "criminal" is showing no regard for YOUR worth...but that's his problem, isn't it? So, are you going to solve his problem by imitating it? He didn't get that way because he was born evil, he probably got that way due to a huge number of factors that occurred over his whole lifetime, and you don't know what they were.

I knew kids in school who were definitely headed for trouble in life. It wasn't usually hard to see why. They were usually living in highly disfunctional families, and had been brutalized in one way or another (emotionally, physically, whatever). They were taught that "life is a struggle for survival, and the tough guy wins, and winning is all that matters", and similar crap like that.

And it is crap.

They could just as well have been taught that we are all here to mutually assist one another (which we are), and that life is beautiful (which it is), and that when you help someone else you have just helped yourself.

If someone invaded my house to steal things, you bet I would be mad, and you bet I would use all necessary force to stop him. It is very seldom necessary, however, to kill. It's easy, though. Call it the lazy man's way out of a bad situation. Any fool with a gun in his hands can easily kill someone. Why, it's almost like playing a video game...Bang! You're dead. Gotcha! Didn't! Did too! And so on...

You asked what is the state of society in Canada? Generally very good, except that there are more homeless people on the streets of big cities now, due to the efforts of recent neo-Conservative politicians. There is what I would call a fairly minimal level of crime, although a fair number of break-ins (more than in the past), and very few violent crimes. There is a better social safety net here (that's socialism...) than in the USA, and a smaller population. Both those factors have helped reduce crime here.

There's also a generally less paranoid attitude here, which I think may be the most important factor of all. Teach people to live in fear, and they WILL react violently.

Every society tries to strike a balance between individual rights and freedoms (looking out for number 1), and collective responsibilities (looking out for your neighbours).

Conservatives are in love with the first concept, and Socialists are in love with the second. They are both right. You've gotta combine both in a reasonably even mix to have a decent and humane society. We've done tolerably well at doing that in Canada, although better in the past than now. There are cracks showing in the social edifice, that's for sure. With every social service that is cut, the cracks grow wider.

Guns won't help. Social justice will. By social justice, I mean...by ending poverty, ending homelessness, healing the sick, educating the uneducated, giving hope to those who presently have none.

And by rating a human life as more important than a f*cking dollar...or a f*cking ten thousand dollars. (No offense intended...I am just indicating the emphasis behind the sentiment).

- LH