Dwelling on past threads is a sure route to insanity and one that is certain to lead to the circular arguments that seem to ensue in these situations. I do not think there is any benefit in it but as there are points that I will be taken to task for not addressing I do feel obliged.

Firstly, civility is relative. Whether calling someone a wanker is worse than calling them a Muppet I am not qualified to say. It is my opinion that both are insults but, in the right circumstances, they are not necessarily uncivil. True incivility is a complete disregard of other peoples feelings, not a few choice swear words.

Secondly, I do feel the issue is not so much what is said, but how. There are ways of doing things in a civil manner even when introducing a contentious subject. The best narrators and orators do it well. The worst will not be believed if they said water was wet. I, and most other people I know, will not accept being told something by someone who's opinion fails to generate any respect no matter how much 'proof' they provide. A good navigator of debates knows exactly how and when to change tack. I am not good myself. There are some who are far better but many are so set on their course that they cannot avoid capsizing the thread.

Finally, I have already said where I would go if I felt I was not getting anywhere. If someone was so entrenched in their opinion that it was counter-productive to attempt reason and would not concede the slightest point, then I would take the piss. It is probably wrong of me but I have done it and make no apologies as I will continue to do so. May seem uncivil but, to me, playing games with what other people have said gets what it deserves.

At that point I feel I have said all I need to say about past debacles. If anyone feels the need to dredge anything else up please feel free but I am unlikely to respond. If anyone wants to take the discussion forward rather than back I will be only too happy to oblige.