well that's just the problem. The Labour Party was founded in a very different age.

we had an empire then, and all the racist shit that went with that. homosexuality was illegal. capital and corporal punishment were on the statute books. Ireland was part of the UK.

And I imagine most Labour Party members at the time would have gone along with all that.

whatever founded the Labour Party. I don't think it gets us very far in this debate.

the question is, which of these turkeys will fly?