Believe it or not, Steve, I am not in an argument with you. I have presented my view and tried to explain it. That's what there is, and I'm sorry if it's not good enough for you. That you are only prepared to have explanations on your terms is a pity, but it is not really my problem.

I am not angry, or being defensive, or refusing to answer or avoiding the subject. It is simply that ii have told you how I find the idea of the-magician is an inadequate way of thinking that almost all the Christians on this thread also regard as inadequate. There are only two people, or possibly three, on this thread who seem really committed to that perception..