Addressing somebody (McGrath?), Steve Shaw said: Incidentally, you're doing a bit of a Joe when you suggest I'm saying you are indelibly imprisoned for life, etc. I have never actually said that, have I? What I will say is that religious indoctrination of children is worse than a bloody waste of time.

...and if I copy-paste his exact words, he'll still say he never said that.

...and then he says: Your reversal scenario simply doesn't work because your position is a belief system whereas mine isn't. I don't know how many hundreds of posts I've sent on this topic, but I never instigate these threads. My position on religion is entirely predicated on yours. Without your religion I wouldn't be here. I am not an equal and opposite. I have no equivalent belief system to yours and all I can ever do is question yours, which I think is misguided, as articulately as I can manage. For all the reasons I've given, I think that yours is ultimately very damaging to many people and that it needs to be attacked. You can call me insulting, heretical, disrespectful, whatever you like, to your religion but you can't really do that back in the same way because I haven't got anything you can attack. Just my demeanour, that's all. Unlike Christianity, I haven't got a message to propagate. I just question yours. And why, after all the harm religion has done and is still doing, should I pull my punches?

Let me see if I understand this correctly. It appears to me that Mr. Shaw is far more zealous in opposing religion, than anybody here is zealous in promoting religion (or even merely defending the right to practice religion publicly). And Steve seems to think it is offensive to promote, defend, or practice religion anywhere he might notice, although it's OK to build pretty cathedrals as long as they're not too religious in appearance.

And with all his missionary zeal, Mr. Shaw says he hasn't got a message to propagate, although he prattles on and on about "all the harm religion has done and is still doing." But no, he has no message to propagate. Isn't a negative message, still a message?

The guy really confuses me.

I wonder if he has any understanding of the word "tolerance."

-Joe, doing a Joe again-