@ Steve "Unsentimental discussion ' But you can't do that, that's your whole problem. There is a coin you are one side Pete is the other. Data driven, not dogma driven is what is needed. You by picking a team and fighting imaginary battles are part of the problem. I am not btw talking about proving the existence of a God or creator or any such. What I'm talking about is common knowledge in a lot of circles and has been with us for ever.
    Fact 1 (not rhetoric) There is a physical process some people from each generation go through that expands their awareness.
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    Fact 2 It is in all cultures and always has been, and nobody owns it.

--    Fact 3 Regardless of culture or tradition the end product is the same..universal.
    Inconvenient for you I know but there ya go

Now the logical route is to assume it's psychosis,well research it that doesn't hold water. The next step is to assume it must be fantasists passing down a meme, that won't fit either.No matter how you try dismiss it, it won't go away (been there). You have to stop debating this for a while and start contemplating it properly. Accept the the facts above on your own away from the net until you have digested them and the implications,that may take a while. Then you will have a more informed view and we could move on and it gets interesting. I piss everybody off with my approach,the athiests and the religious because I have no team. I have two more free days and if you post anything relevant, I'll discuss with you.The last time we tried you dodged by insinuating I was thick,well I have a pretty hefty IQ and I'm only mentioning that to put you right. Now really am going to sleep.