Just picking up the point that there is not much to learn from pete's viewpoint. Some people are more inclined to be 'analysts' and seek to divide things into the component parts. I am more of a synthesist and am more inclined to make relationships between things. All of us are both to some extent, of course.

Now, to me there are interesting relationships between pete's views and the mapplethorpe obscenity trial. In particular the comment that one of the people who brought the case made when they lost. "No, we didn't lose. We taught all the galleries to avoid exhibitions where we might bring a very expensive case against them if they don't stay within the bounds we set." That's a paraphrase because it is a long time ago, but the sentiment is right. We will fall into that sort of trap if we do not understand how other people think. And we will not get that understanding of how people think if we just keep parroting creationism is stupid, we know God doesn't exist, they are not listening to me and all that stuff.