My word, Joe Offer hasn't half gone on off on one. The trouble is, Joe, when you get mad and start spraying your accusations out in all directions, the first victim is accuracy. No-one on this side of the divide is claiming that they own the truth or is obsessed by it. Requiring evidence before you embrace any notion is neither Spock-like nor obsessive. It is RATIONAL. And now you're telling us that the truth isn't so important after all. Well, a few months ago you were telling me that all the myths and stories and all the rest of religion's contrivances were all about seeking deeper truths. I see that that concept has now gone out of the window. Well in a sense I can agree that having the whole truth is not the be-all and end-all. What is important is the trajectory towards truth. Religious superstition is a massive obstacle on that trajectory, so much so that it prevents us from having any chance of getting there. Supernatural "explanations" are not explanations at all, and they too easily satisfy incurious minds, with the effect that the search for real explanations, such as Darwin's quest, is either sidelined, perverted (as in your case) or scornfully dismissed (pete). You are getting cross because we attack this. Well how do you think scientists feel under such an effective barrage from faith that almost half of the population believe in magic instead?

As for the virgin birth, well answer me one simple question. If it's irrelevant, why is it in the story in the first place and why are we going to be regaled with the assertion all over the next few tedious weeks as we run up to Christmas? You know full well why it's in the story. It's because the story needs Jesus to be set apart as someone a bit more special than everybody else, the possessor of a uniqueness. You can't just tell us that he's unique, you have to prove it by giving him magic powers, and the virgin birth was just the start! As ever, Joe Offer can get his head round this but fails to acknowledge that most Catholics actually believe that it's true. By the way, Joe, many of your posts are now filled with your good deeds. Kudos to you for them. But we heathens do good stuff too at times but we don't necessarily feel that it's evidence for the defence. What was that about hiding your light under a bushel...