If this thread is 'nasty' the common theme of nastiness is that of religion promoting abuse and perpetuation of medieval bullshit in the face of the clinical and moral needs of populations they have control of.

Hate to say it, Joe, but this is exactly the heart of the matter. Yes it is confrontational. We will wait until kingdom come for the Church to significantly alter its stance on abortion. After you'd made your comment about extremist elements I was prompted to look up Catholic doctrine on abortion. Rock-solid. Gentle persuasion and diplomacy have failed. Perhaps the confrontation will come not from heretics like me, Jack and Musket but from some horrid plague affecting thousands of children and mothers, forcing the Church to back down. No-one wants that plague to happen, but pray that your religion isn't treading on too-thin ice by denying women their rights.