This is very disappointing. As ever, I tend aim my fire at Catholicism in general, mostly confining criticism of individuals to "if the cap fits." Joe comes back after a weekend mini-break (perhaps he missed seeing some of the light-hearted banter that went on while he was away) and before you know it his guns are ablaze, calling me patronising names (gosh, I was a bit weak there with my Holy Joe riposte...) and misrepresenting me (actually, if anything, worse than that: ascribing remarks to me that I've never made). Now he drags Dave in to boot, and he goes for Musket, who hasn't posted for over a week to the thread, and even then hardly in the warlike manner Joe indicates. Keith then wades in and tries to up the ante by confusing belligerence and forthrightness. You have it in a nutshell, Raggytash. And it's significant that the breach of the peace comes from the religious "side." They sure seem to be missing those heresy laws. Bad form, chaps. You can't discuss the pros and cons of religion with believers in one corner and dissidents in the other without being forthright. But you can retain your dignity and cool. That's what we're supposed to be doing in the brave new world, no?

I'll say it again for your benefit, Joe Offer: you don't have to defend your faith in front of me. I've lost count of the number of times I've defended your right to believe what you like, including in this very thread. It's entirely your business. When you decide to propagate it as faith to other people, it might become ours. If you choose to discuss your beliefs in the open, you can expect comeback. Your extensive training should enable you to handle that with a cool head. That's the only place I'm coming from.