The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #45911 Message #3787882
Posted By: Jim Carroll
30-Apr-16 - 03:38 AM
Thread Name: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Subject: RE: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
The Home Rule Bill was opposed vehemently by the Tories and blocked by the House of Lords; it was eventually got through by Royal assent.
After the Easter Rising of 1916, two attempts were made by the Prime Minister, Asquith during the First World War to implement the Act. The first attempt came in June 1916, when David Lloyd George was sent to Dublin to offer immediate implementation to the leaders of the Irish Party. The scheme revolved around partition, officially a temporary arrangement, as understood by Redmond. Lloyd George gave the Ulster leader, Carson, a written guarantee that Ulster would not be forced into a self-governing Ireland. His tactic was to see that neither side would find out before a compromise was implemented.[13] A modified Act of 1914 had been drawn up by the Cabinet on 17 June. The Act had two amendments enforced by Unionists on 19 July – permanent exclusion and a reduction of Ireland's representation in the Commons. When informed by Lloyd George on 22 July 1916, Redmond accused the government of treachery. While all this backhanding was going on the Tory opponents to any kind of Independence had renewed their campaign to block it. This was decisive in sealing the future fortunes of the Home Rule movement. Asquith made a second attempt to implement Home Rule in 1917, with the calling of the Irish Convention chaired by Horace Plunkett. This consisted of Nationalist and Unionist representatives who, by April 1918, only succeeded in agreeing a report with an 'understanding' on recommendations for the establishment of self-government.
There was never an agreement to the permanent partition of Ireland by the Irish parliamentarians and when it was finally forced through under the threat of war, it led to civil War in Ireland and a near century of inequality of the Catholic population in employment, housing and voting, which in turn led to unrest, regular anti-Catholic rioting and the violent quashing of civil-rights protests in the late 1960s which brought about getting on for 3 years of bloody open warfare, the aftershocks of which are still being felt.
To say that Home Rule was a done deal is utter bollocks - it was a lose-lose situation either way for those who wanted Independence.
Ireland was entitled to Independence and the rebels took the only course open to them?
Your accusation that the rebels were guilty of "murder" and the Irish people would celebrate that act and make heroes out of "murderers" is as despicable as Keith's - The Rebels were freedom fighters, fighting for independence from the British Empire, "on whose hands the blood never dried" according to a saying of the time.
If any "murder" was done, it was the cold-blooded and totally unnecessary execution of the leaders, which backfired magnificently.
So what did they do - they gave Ireland an example of what Imperialism represented by strapping a critically wounded man into a chair so they could execute him - that remains as the strongest image of The Easter Rising up to the present day.
Far from the reason being your equally despicable accusation that the rebels were allies of the Germans (a wonderful blast from the past, that one - nobody believes that now), it was aimed at setting an example, with the possible exception of Connolly, who had to be removed as his Socialist ideals were a threat to the system and in behaving in such an evil manner they gave Ireland an example of what Imperialism represented by strapping a critically wounded man into a chair so they could shoot him - that remains as the strongest image of The Easter Rising up to the present day.
British behaviour before, during and after the Rising is adequate evidence of how far Britain could be trusted.
Black and Tans were first recruited in 1919 - they were sent to Ireland in March the following year but, as I said, when they were disbanded many of them remained and joined the R.I.C. - they continued their activities up to the Truce.
Nit-pick if you like, but Tans trained by Britain were in fact still operating in Ireland until the R.I.C. was disbanded in 1922.
"The border was changed so that as many people as possible would be on their preferred side, saving more bloodshed."
The Irish people on either side of the border were never consulted
Six Counties instead of nine was the result of appeasing Carson and his mutineers - you have had a description of Lloyd Georges's continuing behaviour in all this - made up maybe?
- if you have any quibble with the gerrymandering that took place, show that it didn't.
"My views are the same as those of Father Murphy"
I'm sure they are - my views are the same as those of the Irish people as a whole rather than an American Jesuit priest.
Your and Keith's "Bernard Manning" attitude to the Irish was demonstrated perfectly to your appeasement to Sir Charles Trevelyan's genocidal handling of The Famine and is being repeated here in spades - 't'ick Micks who don't understand their own history and celebrate murder' - Manning, Jim Davidson and Punch Magazine all rolled into one.
Jim Carroll