Well Pete, you may be utterly amazed to read that I agree with almost all that! When I'm discussing politics with my 92-year old dad (best avoided but what can you do!), repetition is the name of the game. I'm sure I've made the same telling points to Mrs Steve a hundred times (she lets me know in no uncertain terms, actually). Yes, a troll isn't just someone who takes exception to your views. A troll is trying to get you to react emotionally, a ploy that trumps any genuine effort to debate. Where I would disagree with you is when you say that abuse means it's time to wind it up. No it isn't. Abuse means that it's time for you to STOP OPENING THE THREAD. Just leave 'em to it! They have precious few listeners and can change nothing. It is irrational to let them get to you. DON'T OPEN THE THREAD!