The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #160847   Message #3818651
Posted By: Jim Carroll
07-Nov-16 - 05:13 AM
Thread Name: Writing a folk standard
Subject: RE: Writing a folk standard
"it is not a question of regard, it is a question of a rule "
It is neither a rule, nor is is restrictive Dick, and it is extremely dishonest of you to claim otherwise.
Those who run music venues here do so for local singers - in general, people who turn up with instruments are as welcome as those who don't - as I said, it is extremely noticeable that very few do.
The few clubs who operate an unaccompanied policy do so in order to promote the style of singing that they learned from the older generation - up to fairly recently there were still a significant number of them around.
There has been a huge revival of interest in Irish language singing here over the last decade or so - solo singing that does not, by its very nature, lend itself to accompaniment.
That is the judgement of the organisers of these clubs and I respect that - it is extremely arrogant of you not to.
Personally, I have always been happy with accompanied singing - when sensitively done - in my opinion, nowadays, on the British scene, you can count the number of 'sensitive' accompanists' on two hands and be left with fingers over - far too often extremely skilful musicians dominate the songs with their skill and draw attention away from the lyrics - that has all too often been my experience.
Irish instrumental music is guaranteed a future, not because I.T.M.A. and the Willie Clancy Summer School rushed to put bums on seats - instead, they built a firm foundation on which the music could first survive - and then flourish.
Now - all the thousands of youngsters who have taken it up can do what they wish with their new-found skills - they can experiment away with it knowing that there is a firm base of tradition they can return to should they wish to do so - and there is a ground floor though which any newcomer can enter and make up his or her own mind which road to take.
That has to happen with Irish singing if it is to have a future
In my experience, experimentation damaged Folk Music in Britain because no foundation for the real thing was ever really established.
You forget your place Dick - you are a guest of this country, just as I am - it is not our place to tell Irish people how to run their clubs.
If there is a groundswell towards accompanied singing it should happen without our interference - it smacks of old British Colonialism for people like you to demand it without it happening naturally.
"Q. What does 'folk music' mean?"
Basically, it means music that has probably been created by and passed through the fingers and the mouths of large numbers of people - 'communities' has been accepted by them as their own, has been remade, adapted and added to over a long period of time, of te centuries, and had become theirs by right and practice.   
That is how it had been researched over a century, has been documented and defined - until it is re-defined and accepted, that is how it will remain.
If it means other things to other people, then we need to know what those things are and be able to discuss and agree upon those 'other meanings' if we are going to be able to communicate with one another.
These arguments become more and more like the BLIND MEN and the ELEPHANT
The rest of your points are very much open to debate Andy - long may that continue to happen - without rancour   
"More voice and trombone"
We are talking about English language tradition Jack, which is overwhenlmingly word-based and narrative and which requires its own nattarive voice if it is to work as narrative communication.
That is not necessarily the case with other traditions - Canto Hondo - which still knocks me out of my socks when I hear it well performed - is a mixture of the two, with each aspect sharing the attention of the listener separately - Middle Eastern Music is pretty much the same and, for what it's worth, has the same effect on me.
Jim Carroll