Well, Dick, the EU was never going to be in the vanguard of bringing about revolutionary change among the 6/the 9/the 12/the 28. It was about creating a bunch of democracies that would never wage war again on the scale of the world wars and about creating a trading bloc that would operate without punitive tariffs. In the words of John Seymour, who I think was probably not an avid European, the disease of gigantism was inevitable. In that context there was always going to be daft bureaucracy and a gravy train to be exploited. We don't like it, but, as Jim says, if you know of a proven better alternative, let's be having it. And, let's face it, many of the member nations, including our own, suffer from the same absurdities. Coming out isn't going to cure that.