LArry, I think we're back in harmony. (Just in time - this thread's getting way too long.) Anyway, I'm with you 100 per cent on the criminal and cowardly US/UK assault on Kosovo/Belgrade. SAme goes for what's going on in southern Iraq daily and what Israel's been encouraged to get away with for years.

There's one point I ought to make to DtG though, on the thread's main theme: suicide is not a victimless act - it can be quite brutal on close relatives etc. Statistically people who have a parent who committed suicide are more predisposed to do it themselves, the rationale apparently being close to that in abuse cases - ie, because they have been shat on, they don't feel so bad about shitting on others.