Steve Shaw - 17 Dec 16 - 04:19 PM

1: Teribus responding to Jim's criticism of Israel (not Jews):

"That Jim according to the definition of anti-Semitism adopted by the British Government is an anti-Semitic remark."

From the IHRA definition, adopted by the British Government and as used by UK Police Forces since 2015 in defining anti-Semitic race hatred.

Here is what Jim Carroll posted:

Jim Carroll - 17 Dec 16 - 09:59 AM

"Israel is now indistinguishable from the regime that slaughtered six million Jews and the rest of the world looks on in silence"

Here is the IHRA Definition of what is considered to be anti-Semitic behaviour:

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

- Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

- Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

- Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

- Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).

- Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

- Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

- Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour.

- Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

- Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

- Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

- Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.


2: Almost in the same breath:

"the Arabs of Palestine have done what they do best - they fight each other, launching their political opponents from the roof-tops of multi-storey buildings and renege regularly on promises of holding elections whilst holding onto the reins of power and stealing as much as their grasping hands can get hold of - these are the people you wholeheartedly support - they are the scum of the earth Shaw and should be roundly condemned" - Teribus

"No messing here. That is hate speech and Islamophobia of the very worst kind." - Steve Shaw

Really Steve where in that quoted passage have I referred to Islam? As I haven't nothing contained in that quote could ever be considered "Islamophobic". But to analyse what I did say:

(a) "the Arabs of Palestine have done what they do best - they fight each other"

Mere observation and actual fact previously commented on by T.E. Lawrence and others. Do you wish to dispute that? Would you like me to furnish you examples of this almost incessant internecine conflict between the Arabs in the region since 1920? Easily enough done.

(b) "launching their political opponents from the roof-tops of multi-storey buildings and renege regularly on promises of holding elections whilst holding onto the reins of power and stealing as much as their grasping hands can get hold of "

Referring to the so-called leaders of the "Palestinians" in Gaza. Do you deny that Hamas in their 2007 "spat" with Fatah that Hamas and Fatah followers were thrown from the roofs of multi-storied buildings in Gaza? Do you deny that promised elections have not been held? The last elections run by the Palestine National Authority in the West Bank or by Hamas in Gaza were in 2006, tell us all Steve why no further elections have been held and who is responsible for that? What organisation and who in that organisation controls the aid money that is given to the Palestine National Authority and to Hamas? Considering that they have received more in foreign aid than the whole of Europe received after the Second World War these Arab "leaders" appear to have done very little with it apart from making themselves extremely rich - they are the scum of the earth Shaw and you are one of their biggest apologists, you applaud them all the way whilst criticising Israel thereby making yourself guilty of anti-Semitic behaviour in as much that you are - Applying double standards by requiring of it {Israel} a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation..

So what I said was neither "Islamophobic" nor was it "hate speech". I was merely stating well established, documented and recognised facts relating to the "Leaders" of the "Palestinians".