I'd say that the people clutching at straws here are those whining about things that have not happened - "invented reality" - oh yes Shaw worry, "the sky is falling".

As nothing compared to your invented reality that we are going to be a great trading nation once again, that other countries will come running into our arms, that we will once again "get back control" (tell it to the multinationals!). The country is leaving the EU precisely because your side peddled a pack of lies about an invented reality.

"Because of Brexit and Trump, the EU is in danger of collapse."

As you seem to have cast yourself as the forum's expert on talking bollocks,

Well I thought you'd be over the moon about the prospect of an EU collapse as you've never said one good word about it. But here you are trying to soothe us by saying that talk of its collapse is bollocks. Why would that be, I wonder? I'll tell you why. Because you know damn well that an uncontrolled, chaotic collapse of the EU (no other kind would be possible) would pitch the world into severe danger. All those fascists, including Putin, are waiting in the wings, aren't they, and Mr "America First" won't have a clue how to handle it except for becoming more and more isolationist and protectionist. Just him and China. Whoop-de-doo!

Take a bloody good look at dissatisfaction with the EU within the European member states Shaw and you will find that it is widespread, well established and was in existence long before Brexit and long before Donald Trump won the 2016 US Presidential election.

Indeed, but the game has changed. All that long-term dissatisfaction is now seasoned with a heavy dose of waiting-in-the-wings fascism thinly disguised as populism. You've defeated your own argument by pointing to that dissatisfaction. With the help of the fascist threat, the EU could be terminally undermined.

You mention Le Pen. The Political Party she leads was founded when? It was formerly led by who - Her father wasn't it? And he was elected leader of it WHEN**?

Similarly Geerd Wilders**

** As Shaw will not answer questions asked. In the case of Jean-Marie Le Pen his National Party was formed by him in 1972 the year BEFORE the UK joined the EU. While Wilders formed his Party in 2004

Indeed. But these threats have changed from marginal to mainstream. Trump, Le Pen, Farage and Wilders are no longer clowns on the sidelines almost but not quite as entertaining as Screaming Lord Sutch. As you gleefully point out in the case of Farage, these people are gaining millions of votes. No threat? Brave new world for little England? I should coco!