"Fair enough, but I was making a point about the lying not the exact numbers."
No Keith - not "fair enough" - you lied and you are quick enough to evade facts by accusing me of lying
Here you have been caught red-handed and downright stupidly protesting about someone making up casualty figures -and what do you do - you make up casualty figures
You really couldn't make that one up, it is so stupid
I suppose you were too young to have script-wrote for the Goon Show - that would have been a classic!!
"These people lie about what they have seen and what Israelis do."
The Israeli regime lies about what they do - so do you
"They can not be believed without verification."
Neither can Israel or you be believed without verification - neither have provided any verification that can be trusted - both of you have lied prodigiously
"There was no massacre at Jenin."
Stop creating smokescreens - you raised Jenin as a diversion
There is no question that Sabra Shatila took place and Israel did what they did
Please stop smearing the word of a Jewish nurse that was there - whatever you "refer to" you make a point of distorting to suit your own particular agenda - you have done this far too often to be trusted.
"Facilitated implies that the massacre was intended and there was collusion."
To facilitate can equally mean that it made possible the massacre - which is a fact - without Israeli collusion it could not have happened
Whether they planned it in advance is indicated by the Israeli remark that
''We asked the Phalangists to leave,'' said the colonel. ''We don't need anyone to do the job for us"
I have no inttention of allowing you divert away from the main facts, which are, The Sabra Shatila Massacre was a Falangist/Israel joint enterprise - Both were equally responsible, planned or unplanned.
Every abdication is that the outcome was known in advance - so senior officer could possible have believed that letting loose a bunch of armed notorious fanatics whose leader had recently been assassinated on a mass of unarmed people they believed to be responsible for that assassination could possibly have had any other outcome
What do they have for senior officers in the Israeli Army - Captain Mainwaring clones??
The fact (that you have yet to respond to) that the Falangist witnesses who were due to give evidence mysteriously disappeared while in Israeli custody shortly before they were examined, is indicative that we have only had a slight whiff of this rotten carcass of a massacre.   
"I think that massacring hundreds of civilians in refugee camps is a terrible war crime. "
Haven't really been following this, but if that's all Steve said, he is on the nail -
It is a terrible war crime to massacre hundreds (thousands even), whether you actually get the blood on your own hands or help someone else get the blood on theirs on your behalf
Whoever paid for the hit on Kennedy, Lumumba or Allende is every bit as guilty as the one who pulled the trigger
You have a nasty dose of evasive pedantry - again, in order to wiggle away from the main points - again
It's become as habitual a tactic as Keith's "real historians", or phantom witnesses or "decent democracies"
You are nothing if not predictably unimaginative, in fact, "nothing" is probably enough
For you, the war is over Tommy
Jim Carroll