"Saying Donuel's post "verged on incoherence" means the same thing as "I didn't quite understand what he said"."

You are correct, I didn't understand. I have zero objection to asking the question, that's what being a skeptic is; question everything and keep an open mind. As you say, every scientific investigation starts with a question, but you have to formulate that question carefully.

I'm not dissing anyone's belief in any of these things; I believed them myself for a long, long time and all opinions are valid. I have seen UFOs (2010 in the US), had 'psychic' experiences, still visit Glastonbury for the spirituality of the place (not the mystic tat anyone though, which is a shame in a way), heard voices in streams, had a set of Zener cards and seen strange mists in the local forest in broad daylight.

However, I have questioned my own ability to reliably report these occurrences; how objective was I being at the time, what was my frame of reference and the context of these observations? How was I feeling at the time? Ask the uncomfortable questions. I just don't believe hearsay anymore as it's proved so utterly unreliable. That's certainly not to say people are dishonest, but we assign explanations to things we experience and don't understand to make them understandable.


"I think that's what bothers some people most, but there are many things that can't be verified and tested."

Not at the moment for sure, but I remain optimistic we will do one day. There's much that remains unknowable and those if us that put faith in science as being the best system of enquiry into the nature and fundamental truth of our universe stick with it, we'll get there. In the meantime, religion and new age bilge can fill the void, as it has done over the centuries.

It's odd how people who are skeptical of things like ESP, ghosts or bigfoot are portrayed as being unable to understand any other person's viewpoint simply because they disagree with it. It's a familiar trope but it fundamentally misunderstands what many of us are about; we just want to know the truth and go about it the best way we can, using a system devised by countless minds over millenia. If that's ignorance, then count me in. I'm as full of shit as anyone, but like many scientists I know, I'm trying bloody hard to learn.