"the English working class in the nineteenth century were incapable of creating their own music and song"?
I said "incapable or unwilling
"As modern historians will tell you there is a lot wrong with past scholarship. "
Down to the nitty-gritty - Child et al were wrong - why didn't you say that in the first place - it would have saved so much time?
"Personally I don't put much store in MacColl's scholarship, "
Personally, I don't put much store in yours Steve, but that's beside the point
MacColl never claimed to be a scholar - he mistrusted desk-bound academics, and I'm beginning to see why
Despite this, he did more work, on his own and with others, on analysing songs than anybody else in the revival, from the point of view of a singer who wanted to sing the songs.
Carthy's programme on the Critics Group was rather spitefully called "How Folk Songs Should Be Sung" - in fact it was the opposite
The Group examined the songs minutely to see what they actually said about the subjects they handled - one of the first questions we were encouraged to ask was, "what were the possible reasons this song was made in the first place?"
Over the nearly ten years existence of the Group, it produced some interesting answers and left those with a desire to find out more in those involved - far from the feeling of anger and depression Roud's book and your claims have produced in me.
MacColl's work with the Critics was recorded and survives for examination - let's hope it outlives the necrophobia that still surround everything MacColl ever did!
The result of Child's and Sharp's (apparently flawed) work survived up to the present day, despite close examination and constant acceptance and use
From them I got reasoned arguments and logical claims which stood the test of thirty odd years of our own field work.
From you I got contradictory excuses and arrogance.
I honestly don't know where you stand on folk song
You describe one of the finest Irish broken token songs as "a bloody awful song" because you are unable to grasp the context of terms generated by the Hedge School system
You offer as an excuse for the poor versifying of broadside hacks that the oral tradition cleaned up their songs, while at the same time denigrating that same oral tradition by comparing it to the work of "the lowest apprentices in the printers at the bottom of the market".
Your explanation of a poor version of "Higher Germany:

Subject: RE: Origin: High Germany
From: Steve Gardham - PM
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 02:46 PM
Its poor construction and inconsistency might suggest having come from oral tradition, but it could also be down to the fact that such jobs were given to the lowest apprentices in the printers at the bottom of the market. It's not possible to say whether it precedes or derives from 'High Germany'

You claim that Child was beginning to change his mind about broadsides.
You say that hard pressed, production line hacks studied newspapers to educate themselves on agricultural or nautical terms and equipment
You suggest that the same hacks served at sea, worked on the land, espoused social causes because secretly they were social reformers
You claom an anonymous 'school' of hacks who were capable of producing folk songs, despite their kind being justly regarded as notoriously bad poets....
These are not the result of good research or scholarship - they are hastily grabbed excuses to explain away problems you haven't considered.
I don't even know if you like folk song - you certainly give me the impression that you don't understand it.
Your approach to discussion is not co-operation but a quesdtion of "them and us"
from your talk:
"As they rightly say I can offer little proof of my findings and most of the evidence I have is circumstantial. On the other hand they can offer even less evidence to counter my opinions."
That is neither true, nor does it encourage mutual co-operation to seek the truth.
Your approach to being challenged has been one of resentment, talking down to, and occasionally open hostility
None of us have definitive answers, some of us appear to think we have.
Discarding the century or so's opinion and actual work of the people who were responsible for giving us what we have and what we know is hardly going to help
Child didn't know what he was talking about - must write that down!!!
Unbelievable - at so many levels
Jim Carroll