It's also the case that, on this very day and in this very thread, I've fundamentally disagreed with Dave, and, in the recent past, I've disagreed with Raggytash about Jim, and Raggytash has vehemently disagreed with Jim, and Jim has disagreed with me, and I've vehemently disagreed with pfr about pornography. Sometimes, the red haze may quite likely have prevented you from spotting these things. Funny that, innit, Iains...? One can be bloody robust (as we are with each other) without being bloody uncivil. Give it a whirl. We're all patient men.