"Can we suggest somewhere else then?"
Suggest away Derek; if the subject is not fit for a website that styles itself as being about "Traditional Music and Folklore Collection and Community", where else can it possibly be fit for?
For me, folk song has always been a living entity, as a singer, a listener and a researcher.
All three of those have been part of my learning curve over the last half century and, as far as I can judge, all three of those go into the make-up of this forum - or if they don't, they ***** well should
The idea that this should be taken to an academic journal fills me with horror - I have to say I'm more than a little disappointed you, of all people, should make such a suggestion.
"but is there anyone on this thread that agrees with you,"
These discussions are not about winning hearts and minds or winning over people - they are about open;y exchanging ideas, as all discussions should be
I sincerely hope there are enough open minds here to at least accept that the ideas we are discussing are not the only ones on offer
If this was the only place these discussions were taking place you might have a point - it isn't
I was intending to write a detailed response to Roud's ideas - I still intend to do so, but now there is enough here for me happily to point to and say - "you want mine and other's opinions who made folk song - go open the " New Book: Folk Song in England" on Mudcat and make up your own mind - I have already done so to several friends.
You can judge for yourself whose arguments here make the most sense and who needs to resort to ivory-towerism and personal insulting (ant typos)
This thread has proved an extremely useful sounding board and platform without my having to join the Folk Freemasons, learn a new language and re-mortgage my house so I can afford their literature - thanks all the same.
I don't want to write a book - I probably won't live long enough to do all the things I need to to make sense and make accessible half of what Pat and I have already done.
I worked out a few weeks ago that Pat and I have given something like fifty talks on folksong, to clubs, at conferences, to colleges and Universities down the years, even to groups like The Ethical Society - all were scripted and archived and are part of our collection along with about 100 talks given by others.
We did a few radio programmes in Britain, before we moved to Ireland, since the move we have made getting on for a dozen for Irish radio, we are immensely proud of the three on Travellers and the two on MacColl - all archived and accessible (or will be)
Early this week we met up with the librarians of Limerick University to arrange for them to receive our Library and our thousands of tapes worth of recordings - made by us and others who were generous enough to donate copies of their own work
If Britain had a healthy folk scene, academically or on a performance level, there would be a place for such a collection there - it hasn't, so we have to rely on Limerick making good use of it in their World Music Department - luckily there is more respect for the traditional arts here that they is on your side of teh Irish Sea
EFDSS, which should have been a natural home for collections such as ours, has been turning down donations for years because it doesn't even have storage space, let alone interest in folk material nay more - I know of at least another two British researchers who have the same problem we do in deciding where to leave their work
This argument is a response to the views of a couple of people whose arguments, I believe, could set research in Britain back decades, if taken unchallenged - as if it wasn't in a bad enough state already
Perhaps, if people concentrated more on putting their flk house in order rather than breaking their arses to accept the idea that the folk didn't make folk songs, the position might be improved by coming to terms with the importance of the folk arts taher than trying to bung it in alongside that of the popular music industry - a square peg being pushed into a round hole, if ever there was one.
In twenty-odd years, a few dedicated Irish people have established a firm foundation for traditional music here by creating gatherings like The Willie Clancy Summer School and setting up The Irish Traditional Music Archive
The result has been many thousands of young people streaming into the music and playing it like old masters
A future of at least two generations has nor been guaranteed for Irish music.
A valuable lesson to be learned there
Jim Carroll