I just re-read this entire thread..(over 2 days). I often do that before looking to see who refreshed it and why.

   I am often amazed at how we (the generalized 'we', as well as the 'members of Mudcat we') can do a decent job of expressing some of the most compelling concepts & opinions that concern us strange human folk.

I am also bewildered sometimes at how easily some can miss the import of what others are trying to say, and reply with pithy remarks that don't really address the point.

   There have been a number of threads in which these topics have appeared, but I think this is probably MY most exacting attempt to 'get at' the underlying basis of most confusions. I won't re-hash it all today, as I'm not sure I could improve on what I said 11 years ago.

"...nobody posted anything horribly combative in this particular thread.." No, probable because the main contributors....Me, Amos, Janie, Little Hawk, Katlaughing... and maybe Ebbie & Dave the Gnome.... have shared many other debates in the past, and several of us (them?) have met RT and made music together & shared small talk on a myriad of topics.

I **still** do not feel that my main technical points about philosophy and logic got across for some who were just too psychologically committed to a particular 'belief system'... or beliefs ABOUT belief systems.
(As of today, I can ask folks to note how impossible is is to explain the flaws in Donald Trump to his most fervent base followers. They believe...or just accept... principles that many of us find abhorrent, and there is NO use telling them their basic premises are wrong.)

keberoxu: I really am not sure exactly how your botanical 'truism' fits as a metaphor for the human condition.

Donuel: I 'almost' see the underlying idea in your "overcoat for a cold ego." remark, but I'd have to see if it is similar to well-known quotes about religion being a crutch......