Jim says: How dare you accuse half the world, in cluding groups like Amnesty, Human Rihghts Watch, Medicins Sans Frontieres, Robert Fisk.... et al, of peddling "propaganda. You really have chosen your side, havent you

Jim, let me say this again: I am not disagreeing with you.

I don't know of Robert Fisk, but all the others you list are agencies that I consider to be very credible sources of information.

I do not deny the plight of Palestinians, but I have trying to study and understand what is happening in Israel in a rational manner, devoid of posturing and propaganda. If we stay on the stage of yelling and accusations and do not study the situation deeply, all we will have in the end is yelling and accusations - and no progress.

The agencies you list HAVE studied the situation in a dispassionate, objective manner. Many of them have accomplished great things.

But how much do WE understand of what they have learned. How can I blend what they have to say with my valid personal experience, and make sense of things?

From what I could see, it seems that living conditions for Arabs in Israel, are similar to those of Mexicans living here in California. There are a few who have become very successful, but most are working-class people. Many are gardeners and dishwashers, or work in similar jobs. They do not have the access to education that Jewish Israelis have. But generally, they have adequate food and housing and other essentials.

My personal observations make me suspect that there are many Jewish people in Israel, mostly recent immigrants, who live in similar conditions. The difference is that these immigrants can assimilate and succeed, and the Arabs who have lived in Palestine for generations do not have that hope.

For Arabs in Palestine, the situation is more like life for lower-class Mexicans in Mexico - most seem to be living on the brink of poverty, with no hope of getting out. Back in 1999, I heard one Israeli speak of Palestinians as "always wanting something for nothing." It reminded me of how some Americans talk of welfare recipients - blaming people for their poverty, with no sympathy or understanding for the hopeless conditions these people live in.

A few messages above, Steve posted a lengthy excerpt from Wikipedia about conditions for Arabs in Israel. It seems to be quite accurate and objective, and it's worthy of consideration.

But back to the Anti-Defamation League - I think they give an accurate representation of mainstream thought among Jewish Israelis. They express what Jewish Israelis believe, whether or not those beliefs are correct.

-Joe-